Red Dead Redemption 2 - The Bear and Badger

JonB

Blocks100 wrote:

Would have loved R* to have tackled some of the themes highlighted by Dances with Wolves, but I guess they ain't got the cajones for that either.

They never tackle anything, do they? Despite the pretensions of their scripts i've never seen any substance there. Don't think they'd ever risk taking a side on anything important.

Blocks100

But they had a black protagonist in one of their games...and did the Ballad of Gay Tony actually have, you know, gays in it?

Dark Soldier

They're just big budget fun romps. Red Dead is shit because its a Western but I head into GTAs knowing exactly what I'll get, a heightened take on the real world with cartoon central characters.

Feels like saying IW or whoever does it now isn't tackling the real horror of war via their 16 man deatchmatch PvP or turgid set piece campaigns.

Dark Soldier

Just because they're a big dev, I don't buy into they should do such and such. Fun games.all round.

Blocks100

I guess its the 'land of missed opportunities' though isn't it? Show me the battle of the native peoples against the white landgrabbers, show me the madames and harlots of the whorehouses and their take on the wild west. Show me the god damn snake oil PT Barnums that roam the plains. Heck, show me this guy! :

Spoiler:

But what do we get from that latest trailer? A lazy ass bunch of white folks all tooling up to be gangstas in da hood, but with stetsons and cowboy hats. It's GTA + horses. Again.

Dark Soldier

It's a cinematic trailer in a sea of cinematic trailers. Have we even seen any gameplay yet?

Not saying it won't be that, it probably will be, but they aren't gonna deviate from a formula that makes them.absolutr billions.

Sometimes media just isn't what ya want it to be. Big stupid adventure with fuck yeah graphics and loads of shit to do sells, and the thing is to the majority, that's fun.

Moot_Geeza

Blocks100 wrote:

Spoiler:

I would not steal a hat. Don't ask me any more questions.

JonB

Dark Soldier wrote:

They're just big budget fun romps. Red Dead is shit because its a Western but I head into GTAs knowing exactly what I'll get, a heightened take on the real world with cartoon central characters.

Nah, there's definitely a pretense of daring satire in your GTAs. But it's all for show - just referencing culty things that men are supposed to find cool.

Dark Soldier wrote:

Not saying it won't be that, it probably will be, but they aren't gonna deviate from a formula that makes them.absolutr billions.

Definitely. But part of that is doing its usual serious and meaningful act (see trailer).

Dark Soldier

A bit of satire has always been there yeah but it's played tongue in cheek throughout. As I said, a heightened take. Bit of silly nonsense.

Blocks100

The problem with that trailer is though is that they've gone for the "we're making the videogame equivalent of a Sergio Leone classic!, take us seriously!" angle with its sweeping orchestral scores and bold statements of a untamed wilderness being trampled by the relentless march of 'progress'.

If they wanted to play it for shits & giggles, show us some then.

But there is none in that trailer. It's all serious Western stuff. But whilst modern Western films nowadays tackle the thornier issues, you get none of that with R*. I just don't get their pitch at all.

XOMuggins

A large proportion of Westerns didn't tackle the thorny issues either, there's nothing new there.

XOMuggins

And I find the demand for art that makes the consumer feel politically/morally/culturally in the right to be incredibly tiresome.

Dark Soldier

Blocks100 wrote:

I just don't get their pitch at all.

Games that a hell of a lot of people find fun to play, mainly.

[Deleted User]

Nothing wrong with a cinematic trailer, gameplay will be better shown at a press event anyway.
Nothing wrong with emulating the tone of older Westerns and their lack of social commentary, not everything has to be a statement.

That being said I don't think that is a good trailer. It doesn't hint at a story or give intrigue into a character. It is a bunch of men wearing brown, with brown backgrounds, shouting cliched Western-isms.
I wouldn't watch that if it was a film or TV show.

digi

Liveinadive wrote:

It doesn't hint at a story or give intrigue into a character.

Huh...thats john marsden (from rdr1) on his knees with fresh stitches and a knife at his throat.
im intrigued as will loads of folks be who played and rememberd rdr.
Means its a prequel too.
And also that botched heist sounds like the blackwater massacre mentioned in rdr too.

[Deleted User]

Maybe a mission, is that really getting juices flowing for 20-30 hours of plot?

Also people being excited about something doesn't mean it is good. Coronation Street is the highest rated TV show baring sporting events and the Queens speech.

JonB

Dark Soldier wrote:

A bit of satire has always been there yeah but it's played tongue in cheek throughout. As I said, a heightened take. Bit of silly nonsense.

Not having that. I didn't give up on GTAV because of silly nonsense, but because of it was too try-hard with its serious writing and 'social commentary' that's really all just for show. A lot of it even got in the way of the missions - you're going to drive along this road for 5 minutes because we really want you to listen to this dialogue we wrote.

For me it should just commit one way or another. Go for pure Saints Row silliness or grow some balls and actually challenge the audience a bit. Obviously we know why they don't. But i've no interest in it as it is.

JonB

XOMuggins wrote:

And I find the demand for art that makes the consumer feel politically/morally/culturally in the right to be incredibly tiresome.

What better setting than a Western for some moral ambiguity? it's a great opportunity to do something really interesting that few other developers would ever have the budget for. So far it looks like more of the same though - stitched together references from 100 other sources to give the appearance of 'proper writing'.

regmcfly

JonB wrote:

Dark Soldier wrote:

A bit of satire has always been there yeah but it's played tongue in cheek throughout. As I said, a heightened take. Bit of silly nonsense.

Not having that. I didn't give up on GTAV because of silly nonsense, but because of it was too try-hard with its serious writing and 'social commentary' that's really all just for show.

Have to agree with this. They've always thought that their games were going to make deep and meaningful points. Remember the GTA 4 trailer?

TheBoyRoberts

Blocks100 wrote:

The Hateful Eight - love that film. Re-watching Slow West tonight, as RDR2 has given me Western fever. Yeehaw!

Interesting fact - Slow West is written & directed by one of the guys that was in the Beta Band and The Aliens - my two all time favorite bands.

I met him once before a gig at The Cluny in Newcastle.....I had so many things i wanted to say to him......all I could get out was "The Beta Band changed my life"!!

Blocks100

Yeah, loved the Beta Band too. Certain lyricism that runs through Slow West too. Was it his directorial debut I wonder? If only RDR was capable of weaving such a tale.

Dark Soldier

Fwiw I didn't really get any social commentary in GTAV (well, aside from a few radio snippets), just plot and character development. I enjoy R*'s writing, its not next level but its fun. Its fine if it doesn't hit exactly what you're desiring but even in the plot development its completely silly as fuck. Wonderful world to piss about in and I was never bored with the story.

I stand by Trevor being one of the greatest characters in a game ever.

digi

Dark Soldier wrote:

Fwiw I didn't really get any social commentary in GTAV (well, aside from a few radio snippets), just plot and character development. I enjoy R*'s writing, its not next level but its fun. Its fine if it doesn't hit exactly what you're desiring but even in the plot development its completely silly as fuck. Wonderful world to piss about in and I was never bored with the story. I stand by Trevor being one of the greatest characters in a game ever.

Yeh fuck this highbrow shit, thats for small indies to make there name on.
Gta is always about the stupid fun.

afgavinstan

Wiki wiki wild wild west jim west desperado no ya don't want nadda none of this gunnin this brother runnin this buffalo soldier look its how a told ya any damsel thats in distress be outta that dress when she meet jim west

Dark Soldier

afgavinstan wrote:

Wiki wiki wild wild west jim west desperado no ya don't want nadda none of this gunnin this brother runnin this buffalo soldier look its how a told ya any damsel thats in distress be outta that dress when she meet fred west

well then

[Deleted User]

Party in the street when the heat is on, all night on the beach 'til the break of dawn, welcome to Miami, bienvenidos a Mi-ami.

Dark Soldier

If there's not a big mecha-spider thing wtf are R* doing thats the real wicky wild west fucks sake

Moot_Geeza

I'm not fussed if its Silverado or Slow West at this stage, I just want to saddle up. Would've liked some cowboys & indians action, ideally with both as playable characters, like a playable wild west Heat.

The American Bison Wiki page estimates numbers were as low as 300 in 1900, so my dream of tearing into a herd of thousands as a young brave with a bow can be put to bed for now.

MoesTavern

I wouldn't mind a bit of social commentary, Indian genocide, bison skull mountain etc

From the trailers it looks like GTA in the old west again unfortunately.
Guns, gangs and double crosses, oh my.

JonB

digi wrote:

Dark Soldier wrote:

Fwiw I didn't really get any social commentary in GTAV (well, aside from a few radio snippets), just plot and character development. I enjoy R*'s writing, its not next level but its fun. Its fine if it doesn't hit exactly what you're desiring but even in the plot development its completely silly as fuck. Wonderful world to piss about in and I was never bored with the story. I stand by Trevor being one of the greatest characters in a game ever.

Yeh fuck this highbrow shit, thats for small indies to make there name on. Gta is always about the stupid fun.

Jeez it's almost like i didn't just write all that stuff i just wrote. Ah well. Fuck it.

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