If I had the time I think the thing I'd like to study most is boxing and American history. Colonialism, brutality, slavery, and ultimately the lie of the American Dream are fairly well tied up with boxing, and even more specifically with Ali.

All the usual white stuff but worse; Wrestling, MMA and Fincher's Fight Club.

No, but he came close.

RedDave2 wrote:

@escape - do you feel by packing on the extra weight, McGregor played into the mayweather plan of slowly wearing down after an early rush? I don't think it would have changed the overall result but would a 160lb McGregor been able to last until the 12th? (Think I remember McGregor made a similar error of bulking up for the first Diaz loss)

Boxers weigh-in the day before fights, so 154 guys are typically 165ish come the fight. This is done via dehydration — same as a bodybuilder — and has to be judged well. Too little drainage and you'll give away lots of weight, but too much and you increase your risk of brain damage and fatigue. Intravenous rehydration's a thing.

If McGregor really did hit 170lb, two things: he won't have fully recovered in time, so yeah — his stamina was affected; but he also maximised his physical advantage over Mayweather, who came in under the limit at 150lb. McGregor would've been somewhat fitter had the weigh-in been at 160 middleweight, but Floyd's not that daft — he had his best years at 135. Likewise, McGregor would've been wise to diet to the low-160s to bring his water loss down to 8lb or so.

You can generally take shots better if you rehydrate heavily (caveat: unless you're naturally vulnerable, in which case it's a terrible idea), but if you want a textbook case of the dangers of this, McClellan versus Benn's it. Benn was a small super-middleweight, McClellan wasn't.

Ultimately, I think Mayweather's bodyshots and the duration got to McGregor, and he'd have struggled in the last two rounds no matter what. By boxing standards, it was a very comfortable pace. Largely because Mayweather's not used to chasing, and though he did, he remained circumspect. Sensibly, too, because the risk for Mayweather — at least early on — was McGregor not having enough experience to know when he was out of position and open. There were times when Mayweather was in a really threatening position and McGregor didn't realise it — times when he didn't see feints, so that was the most interesting aspect of the fight.

Boxing a man who doesn't know when he's in danger is dangerous! He might've thrown a lead left thinking it viable and caught Mayweather, when 99% of the time that would've seen him knocked out. It always reminds me of what Alan Hansen said (relayed by Lineker) about not playing against casuals in charity matches: ‘they don't buy dummies, go the same way, and you clatter into each other’.

Mayweather did the right thing: he went forward with his hands up (out of character — he's a defensive genius with a crossguard), drawing the raggo elements out of McG until he tired. He didn't start a meaningful offence until R9.

Facewon wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong escape, but generally combos do real damage when it's left right left etc. As it's hard to get power on repeated punches from the same hand.

They're harder to land, but not physically harder. You can easily throw two or three hard jabs in a row, but you have to commit to holding your ground or moving forward or sideways, so you have to be sure the other guy's not able to slip out of range to counter. Against someone who's moving away at speed, it's really hard to avoid overreaching with jabs, so that's why you see most boxers stop throwing them as they try to cut off the ring. UFC fighters are probably more experienced at catching runaways, because boxers try harder to not get caught in the corners and on the ropes.

Roy Jones' double-right was effective because you didn't see the first one coming; not such a great idea otherwise. He had the speed, power and confidence to turn less-than-ideal tactics into superior ones.

The left-right's a classic because you're throwing conditioning jabs all the time. The trick is to throw the jab with conviction on its own to establish a rhythm* and present a threat, but then fake it when you throw the right behind it. That way, the two are much closer together, and if your opponent tries to counter your jab — as hoped — he eats your right. It helps to throw the jab in his eyeline, but generally you want to aim most of your punches lower to make contact with something if he ducks.

An old fundamental's to use your left to semi-block his right, especially if you can draw his counter-right with a fake jab if he takes the bait of your preconditioning.

Here's an uber-young Tyson using his left hand to throw-off his opponent's predicted right to land his own. Watch the slow-mo replay to see the detail. In this case, Mike just knew that Bent was hurt and looking for a big right of his own. Faking a jab, you aim at his pec/shoulder/bicep, hopefully drawing his reaction, and then land your right first. In fighting games it's what we call a frametrap. Making two punches sound like one, from the man himself.

Just another mention on McGregor's weight, @RedDave2: lifting. Most lighter boxers hardly do any, and that's mostly with kettlebells. Just good old press-ups and sit-ups, throwing a medicine ball at a wall and catching it for building explosive power, and the same in reverse for sit-ups, with someone throwing it at your stomach. The heavy bag's used a lot more than weights for building power. Boxing training's come in for a lot of scientific criticism in recent years, but as much as it might not be the height of efficacy, it toughens you up, and that's arguably far more important.

Couture lifted light weights for endurance; reckon he knew what he was doing. Lots of big punchers have outsized shoulders in common, with relatively slender arms. That's mostly a natural have or have-not, but I'd recommend prioritising the shoulders heavily when training for punching power (alternated dumbbell presses and reverse flies...), since big biceps don't add much (from historical evidence), and they're additional weight to tire you.

In UFC, meanwhile, biceps are very important for control and attachment on the ground.

*Calzaghe had a somewhat unique approach of throwing a power shot in-between feelers at random, conserving energy while keeping his opponents subdued. He was actually a right-handed southpaw (else he'd have been easier to counter), and that's not too uncommon.

Catching up on this thread, Tyson's right to the body and then to the head was a trademark of his. When you throw a leveraged uppercut straight in front of someone, your glove meets horizontally. So you try and find ways of slipping to your opponent's sides, allowing the same punch to come up more side-on and better penetrate their guard. Orthodox guard, that is.

Ali also taunted Floyd Patterson (top dude), because Patterson called him Cassius Clay. In contrast, Patterson saw his new name as a betrayal of his people — an abandonment of sorts, and considered the Nation of Islam a social ill. Ali considered Floyd an Uncle Tom. Once again, Ali used his what's-my-name taunt in the later rounds when Patterson was clearly losing. Not a nice man, Ali. Besides his adultery, he was cruel to Frazier after Joe had given him some money to help out during a hard time previously. Superb boxer.

Childintime wrote:

Conor had a bmx as a kid, he should do the Tour de France.

McGregor wrote:

Fair play. I gave it a go, y'know, but I was focked troo da village.

How about McG on a BMX versus Wiggins on a Chopper?

Facewon wrote:

but jesus, what's happened.

In America, there's an argument that other sports now pay millions, and so gifted athletes are treating boxing as a last resort. And also, like you say, the sport used to be highly respected. In the UK, there was a major uptick in interest when I got into it in '94, and that was largely down to Naz. The gyms started filling up through the mid-'90s, and then the super-middleweights became huge.

Saw this earlier:

https://twitter.com/UltWonHeon/status/901685106787487744/video/1

Mayweather kept closing because McGregor was totally off-balance. He was leaning-in to stay in range, with his legs far behind to quickly pull back. You're not in a position to coil for a powershot like that. OG Henry Armstrong used to watch his opponents' legs when fighting out of clinches.

Potential heavyweights in particular have been poached by NFL, NBA... Bit of a lost generation.

Lawrence Okolie has a basketball build, so there's one exception (albeit cruiserweight).

The classic, eh, @Roujin:

Fighting in the Reg style.

Nah, Hitman Hollis is too legit to quit.

http://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/sport/floyd-mayweather-conor-mcgregor-hypno-disc

Liveinadive wrote:

http://www.shortlist.com/entertainment/sport/floyd-mayweather-conor-mcgregor-hypno-disc

Best thing I've read all week.

I'd put him just ahead of Hearns as a P4P puncher. Hearns was naturally bigger, but their power seemed comparable. Terry Norris was legit, and sadly suffering from physical problems these days.

Herol Graham's a don who almost won a world title at 38, and he was winning that fight until the KO.

Genetic freak against midgets, Gustafsson won their fight

https://youtu.be/x7anDE7OEww

Hunting shooting form vids and he talks about an uppercut. Thought of escape. Great analogy.