JRPC wrote:
3JRPC wrote:There were 2 vox articles dj.
JRPC wrote:
JRPC wrote:It's possible to imagine a situation where a conversation about race and IQ could be had where nobody involved, on either side of the debate, are automatically considered racists.
Facewon wrote:Do you think Harris's behaviour in his interactions with Klein, chompers, and Ater show intentions that are pure?
So does anyone have access to diff so they can check the changes between:JRPC wrote:...
I've read the original vox article a couple of times (including the original before they edited out some of the more inflammatory bits and the more blatant factual errors) ...
I'm not super familiar with Quilette really. I think I've read maybe 3 articles now?Meanwhile, we have another quillette article. Oh joy! Maybe I'll snear at it and ignore it's contents.
Welcome back to discussing bias. JRPC, do you think quillette is a neutral party? Objective? Not part of a tribe?
Should I treat it like you treat buzzfeed or salon or the Southern poverty law centre?
Because a quick glance at the article and its basically down party lines. And a quick google previously on the brief history of quillette gets us back to discussing bias. And that discussion isn't that some sources are unbiased, and some are, it's about how we parse sources allowing for biases on all sides, including our own.
Anyhoo.
Do you think Harris's behaviour in his interactions with Klein, chompers, and Ater show intentions that are pure?
"Sam Harris is among our farthest-ranging, deepest-probing, and most straight & open public intellectuals, engaging sincerely with ideas & people whether he agrees with them or not".
JRPC wrote:You're saying he's undoubtedly sincere or ... a shill?
djchump wrote:So does anyone have access to diff so they can check the changes between: https://web.archive.org/web/20170519015801/https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/5/18/15655638/charles-murray-race-iq-sam-harris-science-free-speech And: https://web.archive.org/web/20180411175750/https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/5/18/15655638/charles-murray-race-iq-sam-harris-science-free-speech It’ll be interesting to see what these “inflammatory bits” were that got edited out - and if it is anything more than what they state in the “Clarification” addendum at the bottom of the latest version.JRPC wrote:... I've read the original vox article a couple of times (including the original before they edited out some of the more inflammatory bits and the more blatant factual errors) ...
...Here, too briefly, are some facts to ponder — facts that Murray was not challenged to consider by Harris, who holds a PhD in neuroscience, although they are known to most experts in the field of intelligence.
- The black-white IQ gap is decreasing, and is now closer to 10 points than the widely cited one standard deviation (15 points), which is the erroneous value Murray cites in the interview. Academic achievement of blacks has also improved by about one-third standard deviation in recent decades.
- The Flynn effect, named for the political scientist and IQ researcher James Flynn, is the term many scholars use to describe the remarkable rise in IQ found in many countries over time. There has been an 18-point gain in average IQ in the US from 1948 to 2002. One way to put that into perspective is to note that the IQ gap between black and white people today is only about half the gap between America as a whole now and America as a whole in 1948. Murray’s hand-waving about g does not make that extraordinary fact go away.
...
...
Here, too briefly, are some facts to ponder — facts that were insufficiently addressed in the podcast (or omitted entirely):
- The black-white IQ gap is decreasing, and is now closer to 10 points than the widely cited one standard deviation (15 points), which is the erroneous value Murray cites in the interview. Academic achievement of blacks has also improved by about one-third standard deviation in recent decades.
- The Flynn effect, named for the political scientist and IQ researcher James Flynn, is the term many scholars use to describe the remarkable rise in IQ found in many countries over time. There has been an 18-point gain in average IQ in the US from 1948 to 2002. One way to put that into perspective is to note that the IQ gap between black and white people today is only about half the gap between America as a whole now and America as a whole in 1948. When asked about the Flynn effect by Harris, Murray responds with some hand-waving about g, a response that does not make the extraordinary fact of the Flynn effect go away.
...
Clarification: This article has been read to say that Harris did not ask Murray about the “Flynn effect,” the increase in IQ scores over time. That wasn’t our intent. They did discuss the phenomenon. We meant to say that Harris didn’t challenge Murray enough on its implications, and Murray’s answers on it were inadequate. The passage has been revised.
AJ wrote:Well, that was a relief, thought I was going to need to listen to around quarter of an hour of that podcast, but it took less than five. Sorry, J, the guy's a nut or utterly ill suited to be doing what he is. If anyone wants a laugh, check out his blog page, it's like a parody and has lots of pictures. https://samharris.org/blog/
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