Didn't think the Last Of Us was a zombie game from what I saw... But the violence?

It's very well depicted (the animation is stunning). Plus you have this young girl with you, and that plays on the mind very slightly, especially with the way she also reacts to her surroundings and the player's action. And the sound is unreal... It's like a film. But you clearly have control over everything (or so the demo suggests), so for me watching that demo, I really did get an emotional response out of it. 
One that's certain quite close to the 'intent' of some of the film sequences I seen recently.

Someone did a very good job of thinking that all through, I felt.

More than anything else I saw on the conference streams.

g.man wrote:

However I am willing to concede that it's a dangerous view to condemn the game just solely on viewing a tiny bit of footage, rather than playing the actual game in it's entirety.

Oh yes, most definitely. But I was rather impressed.
It, and Carmack's bins, have been the most 'next gen' things on display so far.

Here is a contribution: The word "emotion" covers enough states for basically anything to qualify insofar as everything we do and experience provokes an emotion unless you're clinically psychotic.

Though I now notice that G actually covered this already so on with the Cage hate. He is a fucking toad.

I've never felt as low playing games as I have after losing all my goodies after an extended mining session in minecraft or as elated after managing to break the surface at dawn and manage to limp home with a load of loot. All this without any narrative or scripting.

dynamiteReady wrote:

Imagine though, if it's an 18+ game, and you can go through the entire thing without killing a soul. Or perhaps you can play it as the demo suggests, in a fairly violent way, clearing a path for you and the kid's safety. Or perhaps you can slip up, and the girl is killed, but you can still fight through to the end. Or perhaps you  can even snuff the girl (accidently or otherwise) and everyone else... It's very well poised for something very interesting... I suspect that's the Director's intention...

Depends on how well portrayed the girl is. Chances are she could be annoying and I wouldn't care what happened to her. Surely you can say this about any game with side characters etc? I don't see the appeal of Last of Us or what's different about it.

hylian_elf wrote:

Just watched a 7 minute gameplay video from E3, was that the one? Didn't seem bad to me, usual violence. Seems tamer than Manhunt, anyway.

The increased graphical fidelity meant it had a bit more impact on me than Manhunter. Less fun, more provocative. Provocative is usually good, but violence is a very tricky subject in videogames because it's so prevalent.

hylian_elf wrote:

I don't see the appeal of Last of Us or what's different about it.

I see a Resident Evil 4 level of attention to detail in there. If they can get the level design right, and let players make some big, proper choices, then it could be very good indeed.

At the very least, we'll see a high production 3rd person shooter where 'Private Max' (insert generic military cutout name here) has no need to tell 'General Johnson' where to get off.

Oh it'll be the latter fo sho.

We can probably still look forward to a healthy quip-per-minute rate.

dynamiteReady wrote:

@I_R - That's pretty much what G said about the length of the demo. But this is very much a 'what if' thread, and I thought the game to be quite relevant.

Putting aside my feeling that the game looks generic, it is perfectly possible that the devs end up using the girl as a "let's get some emotion in there" tool/MacGuffin. Like get you attached to her and kill her near the end.  But I don't see that as a problem. Some here are saying that deliberately trying to put emotional content in a game is an issue and detracts from the gamey game itself.

On the violence, it may be somewhat graphic, but it makes me feel nothing. Maybe that says something about me.

hylian_elf wrote:

dynamiteReady wrote:

@I_R - That's pretty much what G said about the length of the demo. But this is very much a 'what if' thread, and I thought the game to be quite relevant.

Putting aside my feeling that the game looks generic, it is perfectly possible that the devs end up using the girl as a "let's get some emotion in there" tool/MacGuffin. Like get you attached to her and kill her near the end.  But I don't see that as a problem. Some here are saying that deliberately trying to put emotional content in a game is an issue and detracts from the gamey game itself. On the violence, it may be somewhat graphic, but it makes me feel nothing. Maybe that says something about me.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if one of you died at the end of the game. Would it be any more interesting if you had to choose whether to sacrifice your character in order for hers to live?

regards

g.man

This whole topic of "emotions in games?" is inherently flawed as, and this has been previously mentioned, games are already teeming with emotion as is. The sense of beating a score in Trials HD has provided me with more happiness and elation than any movie ever has.

What they are aiming for is empathy, a far more complicated ideal than eliciting an emotion. As is, I'd prefer the game to be just that rather than some reverse engineered Voight-Kampff duper. 

Cage's work is all well and good (don't mind someone trying something different, he'll not be the one to achieve his goal) and we'll get there eventually, no rush though

g.man wrote:

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if one of you died at the end of the game. Would it be any more interesting if you had to choose whether to sacrifice your character in order for hers to live?

I think it would. If done correctly, such a choice towards/at the end of the game would enhance the experience for me. It would elevate the game from action shooter with good mechanics and gritty violence (assuming it ends up playing well), to something else that we can connect to better, or at least in a different way. See ICO. Last bit of the game was brilliant, and it wouldn't have worked if the whole game didn't lead up to it like it did. Without emo at the end, it would've been "just a little dungeon to escape".

Yup, it would just be nice if devs tried a little harder to think of ways to push your buttons rather than the obvious OMG the girl has died and now I'm sad schtick. We've been there and done that, as you rightly point out, hence my above suggestion.

regards

g.man

hylian_elf wrote:

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if one of you died at the end of the game. Would it be any more interesting if you had to choose whether to sacrifice your character in order for hers to live?

I think it would. If done correctly, such a choice towards/at the end of the game would enhance the experience for me. It would elevate the game from action shooter with good mechanics and gritty violence (assuming it ends up playing well), to something else that we can connect to better, or at least in a different way. See ICO. Last bit of the game was brilliant, and it wouldn't have worked if the whole game didn't lead up to it like it did. Without emo at the end, it would've been "just a little dungeon to escape".

I didn't want to be the first to mention ICO.

That game did 'suspense' rather well, even if it was all highly scripted. 
Yorda's superb animation also did a lot to help the whole thing along. So why don't other developers attempt such shit? 

Look at Majora's Mask for example...

That pushed the 'suspense' angle all the way with a very clever mechanic. But while I appreciated the intent, I fucking hated the game, because I spent much of the time NOT BEING LINK... That made me think about how much I actually enjoy playing the role of Link (fuck knows what that says about me...). I almost ended up hating the developer for promising me the role of Link just to turn me (incidentally, quite likely) into a 'scrub'.

For each 'game day' in Majora's Mask, you're left wondering, "When can I get my sword and shield back so I can deal with that fucking Skullkid"... And that's the fucking game!

You can suspend a film for it's duration (like Colin Farell in the rather superb 'Phone Booth'), but I don't think it's at all possible to do that in a game.

Why do people bitch about this topic (games vs film), so fucking hard?

Shinji wrote:

What they are aiming for is empathy, a far more complicated ideal than eliciting an emotion. As is, I'd prefer the game to be just that rather than some reverse engineered Voight-Kampff duper.

Well, there's empathy with your own character in some cases (the feeling of fear when you step into unexplored territory in a horror game - it's not fear for your own safety, is it?), and also I think there are some examples where games have created empathy for other characters. Mass Effect has come up with some excellent moral dilemmas, and especially in the 3rd game, after you've spent a lot of time getting to know some characters and their detailed backgrounds, it can influence your decision. It's also probably good that these decisions aren't necessarily right or wrong in game terms, because of course you'd be tempted to go for the reward if that were the case. Anyway, I think it shows that if NPCs are well drawn enough they can make you give a shit.