Thread 101: Metroidvaniae
  • That new Momodora game seems to have been overlooked by many. Looks great.

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/1747760/Momodora_Moonlit_Farewell/
  • That new Momodora game seems to have been overlooked by many. Looks great. https://store.steampowered.com/app/1747760/Momodora_Moonlit_Farewell/

    Yeah, it's on my wishlist. Momodora games really are perfect for people who want good combat-centric metroidvanias and monster girl bosses with bouncy titties.
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    Venn diagrams I am in the intersection of
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    I've not properly played any in fact. SteamDeck has emphasized my pile of shame somewhat unhelpfully.
  • Looking at the screenshots I don't know if I've done that one or not :sweatbead emoji:.  So I'm expecting to Quantum Leap any second.
  • OK thanks that sounds a bit fiddly. 20% off at the mo but I'll wait for the magic half price drop then (although 35% is the new 50% tbf). Weak signposting gets on my tits.
  • Still playing through Haak despite this (50% ish) I normally get bored of MVs and having a heap of other games in the pile of shame
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  • Turns out I have played an older Momodora, but only for about an hour. Found myself complaining about not being good enough in 2020.
    Moot_Geeza wrote:
    Started Dead Space this morning. Nice looking game, was enjoying it but as expected I wasn't ready to tackle it properly so moved on after 25 mins. Will have to be in the mood but it's not far off. Played an hour of Momodora: Reverie Under the Moonlight on Gamepass instead, which I recently spotted on an underrated Metroidvania list. The save system means it's far trickier than it should be, and I can sense some tough times ahead thanks to the lack of checkpoints, but the combat is simple & solid (Hollow Knight springs to mind). Seems decent.

    Never went back. Meant to though.
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    Hmm, this looks somewhat familiar….

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    I seem to be midway through both PoP and Haak. Both of which seem pretty legit.
  • PoP defo, enjoyed Haak but got to a point where it felt a bit filler ish
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  • I thought Rebel Transmute was a Xeodrifter sequel for a sec. That was actually one of my first mvania games.
  • Moot_Geeza wrote:
    Cross-posting from the 53 games thread:

    Astalon: Tears of the Earth (11hrs 47mins)

    Exquisite Retroidvania that does so much right in terms of layout, secrets, exploration and item buffs that it ended up knocking on the door of the elite tier for me.  It should come as no surprise to anyone trying to keep up with the modern indie scene that bangers are being slept on every month, and it's likely that there are some very good games out there that none of us have even heard of.  I only found this one after actively searching for deeper Metroidvania recs online and spotting some loud under-the-radar love for it, occasionally in list form.  With 5 critic reviews on PC and a mere 2 on PS4 it's a good old fashioned word of mouth special.  I played on Switch and very nearly tapped out due to performance issues.  It's not quite ruinous, but only because I was willing to forgive unforgivable/unfathomable framerate jitters due to needing something meaty to sink my teeth into while I was away for a long weekend.  Don't play this on Nintendo's geriatric hybrid if you can help it, and take a point off the score at the bottom if you do.  I did in play on Switch in fairness, but I added a point because it's my review and I can do what I like.  Once you get used to the performance wobbles it's not that bad tbf, and certainly nowhere near what we put up with when most games actually looked like this, but there's no reason for something that goes for the super 8-bit aesthetic not to have a rock solid framerate - I'd expect a Mega Drive and 24 meg cart combo to crush this with a bit of development TLC, for example.   Enough of that though; the game itself really is excellent.  I enjoyed Blasphemous 2 a couple of months back but I kept asking myself whether this is a better Metroidvania while playing, and I think my answer is probably yes.  The map isn't stupidly large but the secrets and DIY approach to exploration are so well designed that it feels like a proper example of the genre hitting an ultimate form sweet spot.  I love the Ori's to bits but they're GO HERE NEXT games whereas Astalon feels far more organic in terms of progression, which isn't usually my preference for the genre but probably is technically the bestest way to do it really I guess (he admitted, begrudgingly).  There's always something to distract you, despite the loose 'go up' direction you're given at the start.  It was only three quarters of the way through the adventure that I discovered you can actually go down from the starting point too, which eventually reveals almost as much map as the ascent.  The short-lived three weapon system dictating available routes in Blasph 2 felt under-developed, but Astalon offers something similar as the core of the experience by adopting a Lost Vikings approach, with playable characters that can be changed at camp fires (and eventually at will, with the correct item).  The initial selection of three heroes (spoiler alert: you may find more, but given the way exploration works you may well not) all have abilities that are necessary to negotiate certain obstacles and offer very different combat possibilities.  It's resolutely retro in flavour and requires the player to chip away at progression by gradually revealing areas in the hope of reaching a fast travel spot, often failing at attempting to push a little further past your death room on subsequent attempts.  Controls are simplistic and methodical - far closer to an OG era Wonderboy or a Castlevania (or Hollow Knight, come to think of it) than the fluid nippiniess of Ori or Metroid Dread.  As usual with the Castlevania types things become a lot easier if you slow down, but that's easier said than done as it's generally easier to get carried away and rush things.  Enemies respawn every time you leave a screen too, which could be intensely irritating for anyone expecting a less retro skewed experience but fits what this actually is perfectly.  It's also impressively miserly with health pick-ups to the point where they're effectively non-existent, offering no reliable way to get energy back once you've lost it.  Trust me though, it's an approach that works.   Every time you kill an enemy you receive orbs, which can be spent on various perks and buffs that kick in on resurrection. Each character can be substantially upgraded and there are numerous other offerings that initially felt poorly explained, but eventually the slight gamble element felt like it was deliberately baked in.  So it's one of those games where you get stronger with failure, which means genuinely skilled players will have a tough time of it too as they'll be lacking the stat boosts that scrubfolks will accrue over time.  It's all pitched very nicely afaict, as the tricky but not dastardly difficulty felt right on the money to me (62 deaths, 91% of the map, 78% of items, and I'm not done yet, honest).  Currency can be farmed to an extent, but never to the point where it felt like breaking the balance of the main stages, more that it was inviting you to slowly hoover up orbs for a minimal leg up if you so wish.  Some of the hidden items are delightfully tucked away - I'm missing two trinkets and I'm eager to find out what they are.  Even after the credits rolled I had entire areas of map undiscovered (I've gone back in twice and mopped up for an hour or two, so initial completion was actually around the 10hr mark), and when you do find yourself off the beaten path it's impressive how many forks and detours you can take within an already secret area, and how many secrets there are in general - I'd say 40% of the entire map felt like it was optional.   In terms of size it's not too big, not too small.  It's not too tough, not too easy, not too reliant on fine-tooth-comb map tile connection exploration and not too hand holdy.  Ergo just righto.  Music is mostly very good and a perfect fit for the quest itself and the appealingly stylised but limited visuals.   Complaints?  I couldn't quite work out why anyone would consider any characters other than the wizard as their go-to guy, so I put most of my orbs into maxing him out.  Bosses were fine - rarely great and rarely fully crap.  If you spend a few hours exploring you'll make short work of them due to ever-increasing HP, AP and defence stats, so perhaps the difficulty of the guardians could have scaled up behind the curtain a little more deftly.  Having said that, I quite like any grind I put into games to be rewarded with OP'ness, so I'm not sure what the answer is there.  Either way, none of the bosses have particularly noteworthy patterns or designs.  There's probably too much backtracking and manual schelpping from A to B, even with the main lift and a smattering of teleporters, the latter of which are linked to specific warp points.  So it's not like you can step in one, select your destination and emerge from any you've unlocked, as it the norm, rather that they'll spit you out at at whichever mirror they're twinned with.  Bit mean.  It can be a touch inconsistent on occasion too - you'll fall through most ladders just by walking over them, for example, but this isn't a universal rule the game sticks to. I'm not a complete idiot so I can see that this sort of thing isn't for everyone.  If you appreciated the simple nu retro styled pleasures of Infernax or Monster Boy (@yossarian) there's a wonderful game here that deserves far more attention than it's received.  I don't often bother with what makes this game tick deep dives on design but if someone made one for Astalon I'd watch it (I need to find out why the end credits called it Astalon II for a start).  I suffered the distinctly average Aggelos a few years ago in search of something similar, so it feels like this was some well deserved karma.  I think this might be my top 'modern' gaming experience this year so far (I'll have to check my notes - it's definitely up there).  Which makes me wonder how many other would-be favourites in the genre I've almost got into but shelved prematurely over the years. Toki Tori 2? La Mulana? Super Metroid?!? I'm chuffed I went back to this one anyway. There's nothing quite like a 2D Metroidvania for me when they hit right and I'm kidding no-one by playing it cool over Silksong.  I need it. [9] 

    giphy.gif

    Bumping this because the forum seems to have a MV buzz going at the moment and this one's a gem.  

    *If you can handle faux 8-bit games in 2024.
  • I own that because of course I do. It's near the top of the list, for sure.
  • It's miles better than Phenotopia.
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    Paragraphs, man, paragraphs!

    :)
  • Forum stuff seems to lose paragraphs when quoted for some reason.
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    Man do we need some new forum software (pretends to be techie know-it-all).
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    I do wish pop had slightly more fast travel spots, mind. I'm miles away from any and there's a chunk of stuff I can now do once I get back there
    Spoiler:
  • Definitely don't play Astalon then. I thought PoP had quite a few.
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    Hopefully I'm about to find another one...
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    There are quite a lot, yeah but I get your point about the distance away from an objective some of them can be.
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    I've suddenly got a bunch more, I was just in a bit of story that I think deliberately gives you none. You can sort about the map pretty quickly which obviously helps too.

    A fair way in now, still clearly missing a few mainline power ups but have done a good amount of map.
    Spoiler:
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    Think I'm pretty much end game now in PoP? Got to get a key to the final door and suspect that be it, but we'll see.

    Still enjoying it, but the constellation section didn't feel quite as fun as the earlier exploration, the new pets not hugely exciting, amulets all fairly meh, and not totally feeling the bosses. So it's likely an [8] for me rather than challenging the S-Tier, but it's still deffo fun.
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    FYI Islets is free on EGS next week.
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    Biomorph seems kinda interesting
  • I made the mistake of getting the cultist simulator sequel on a whim. Immediately refunded it when I realised. Nabbed biomorph with the refund.

    Don't know when I'll get to it.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • acemuzzy
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    When you realised what exactly? I don't think I knew there was a sequel...
  • Book of hours is name. Mechanics the same, set in same world. Equally obtuse and frustrating as fuck.
    I'm still great and you still love it.

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