General Games News
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There's so many great indie studios and small publishers putting out actually interesting titles now that I really couldn't give less of a shit what the big bastards are up to. If I look back at all my favourite stuff from the last number of years it's all been about the little guys.
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Matt_82 wrote:What are MS/Xbox getting in terms of games, then? I'd be amazed if CoD wasn't exclusive so that's a load of FPS. Spyro and Crash Bandicoot give them 3D platformers. But they'd have these already, just not exclusive.
Do they revive Prototype to get a 3D super hero game? Are we getting World of Warcraft on Xbox?
I think it's crazy news (massive for MS) and I'm looking forward to rattling through the existing games that appear on Gamepass but I dunno what it means for games we get going forwards.
Warcraft/Starcraft/Diablo from the Blizzard side.
I started looking at a list of Activision games on Wikipedia, but there were just too many to try and start parsing out what IP might be held by Activision. -
Yossarian wrote:
According to Wikipedia, SegaSammy’s revenue in 2020 was about $3.2B (and remember that’s not just from games, Sammy has a lot of its own businesses), versus ActiBlizzard’s $8B.Not sure... Sonic alone is massive. But even Sega subsidiaries, like the FM guys Sports Interactive (edit - and especially Atlus), have massive international user bases. Wish I knew enough to make an estimate. Might make an interesting topic to explore in some depth, that... Wouldn't know where to start.
Do you reckon these valuations are just a simple extrapolation of market value?
That might read snootily, but it's not meant to be...
Ever since the Twitch buy out, I've been seeing these multi-billion pound media mergers, and wonder how these businesses are valued.
More specifically, I wonder where objectivity and subjectivity intersect (or where quantity becomes quality, I think Engels was once quoted for).
Minecraft was the trippy one, because who was to know what Microsoft planned to do with it at the time?
And now, since the buyout, Minecraft has actually gained more fans and users (if anyone would have ever believe it), than it ever had.
I mean, 2Bill still doesn't sound like a 'bargain' to me by any stretch, but it looks like the purchase is justifying itself.
And then look at the Rare merger, which many thought would have pulled the XBone into a prime position. These days, it's almost a struggle to find anyone who remembers just how critically acclaimed that studio once was...
So that's what I mean by that question. How do you think people determine the value of these studios now?
That's more of the reason why I brought up Sega.
GurtTractor wrote:There's so many great indie studios and small publishers putting out actually interesting titles now that I really couldn't give less of a shit what the big bastards are up to. If I look back at all my favourite stuff from the last number of years it's all been about the little guys.
Ah. But the 'big bastards' will determine, in large part, how the 'little guys' will work, and what they will build.
Even if that's inadvertently.
Minecraft was the littlest of 'little guys', and only a few short years ago too."I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996 -
Sega and Activision are both limited companies, so their valuation is whatever their shares are worth at the moment x the number of shares.
Shares go up and down all the time, so it can and does change from day to day. -
dynamiteReady wrote:Ah. But the 'big bastards' will determine, in large part, how the 'little guys' will work, and what they will build. Even if that's inadvertently. Minecraft was the littlest of 'little guys', and only a few short years ago too.
I think you got it the wrong way around, at least that seems to be the case more often than not. The little guys are the ones taking the risks and coming up with new ideas, the big fuckers just try to sell something safe to people who want a known quanitity. -
Yossarian wrote:Sega and Activision are both limited companies, so their valuation is whatever their shares are worth at the moment x the number of shares. Shares go up and down all the time, so it can and does change from day to day.
The quick challenge to that, is what drives that value, and how do you arrive at a fixed price, when there's always a sizable chance that the next game will sell much less than 30 million copies (i.e, that day to day change that you cited)?
Or even just a few 100,000.
Because that's how publishing has always worked.
The thing that I think I see, is that the technology for deriving a value may have changed drastically, under our noses.
GurtTractor wrote:I think you got it the wrong way around, at least that seems to be the case more often than not. The little guys are the ones taking the risks and coming up with new ideas, the big fuckers just try to sell something safe to people who want a known quanitity.
I agree with that. But at the very least, any given dev is constrained by the available tools and available platform (even that's a PC and web browser). It's another subject, granted, but look at how Unity exploits the desire for devs to self publish.
It's now bigger than some of the more well known publishers."I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996 -
Stocks are bought and sold for whatever people think they’re worth, expected sales are certainly part of it, but all of the controversy around Activision Blizzard recently has affected the stock price too, which is almost certainly part of the reason that Microsoft thought that now was a good time to buy.
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Yossarian wrote:Stocks are bought and sold for whatever people think they’re worth, expected sales are certainly part of it, but all of the controversy around Activision Blizzard recently has affected the stock price too, which is almost certainly part of the reason that Microsoft thought that now was a good time to buy.
Ok, and Minecraft?
Would you have valued it at 2bill at the time?
I mean, we can actually check that, but will rely on goodwill.
I know I was shocked by that purchase.
Rare was different though, as the Stamper brothers had gone by then."I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996 -
I don’t know that Mojang was publicly listed, so in that case, it would just be hammering out a deal with the owners, similar to Bethesda.
I don’t know that I’d have valued Minecraft at $2B myself, but then that’s part of the reason why I’m not a trillion dollar company. -
GurtTractor wrote:
I think you got it the wrong way around, at least that seems to be the case more often than not. The little guys are the ones taking the risks and coming up with new ideas, the big fuckers just try to sell something safe to people who want a known quanitity.Ah. But the 'big bastards' will determine, in large part, how the 'little guys' will work, and what they will build. Even if that's inadvertently. Minecraft was the littlest of 'little guys', and only a few short years ago too.
I'm a massive fan of smaller games, made by smaller teams of developers but I'm not sure i can get behind this odd narrative that it's the indie kids coming up with all the new ideas and taking the risks. Think it's a little partisan to view it in this way tbh. The smaller teams can certainly show their love, craft and care for their title more than employee number 1000 can on the latest Sony behemoth but to mix this with the view that only the little guys are coming up with new stuff is pretty disingenuous. Stuff gets nicked and appropriated from all corners of the gaming world, with constant iteration getting us to where we are now. I'd say the little guys taking the risk to try stuff on their own is wonderful and to be applauded but its just as risky for Mr Ubi Manager to budget out his $60 million and hope his game doesn't tank.
I will say that i can find common ground with the tone and content of a lot more indie games than i can with the mainstream big bucks FPS's but this doesn't make them more risky or more able to come up with new ideas. A thousand metroidvanias or procedural rogue-lites soon put a dampener on all that talk. -
I think they just went to Notch and said: hey do you want two billion mate, give us minecraft.
Microsoft have more money than god so they can easily over spend. -
Yeah I'm not trying to make an objective statement on this, a key part of what I said there is "at least that seems to be the case more often than not". It's a view primarily based on my own recent experiences with games, I can find little of interest in the big IPs and the output of the big publishers. The issue with any large company is the number of mouths you have to feed and shareholders to placate, so trying out a big change in direction might seem unsavoury. You want to just keep churning out more of what will make the money. Small devs have less to lose, and more to gain trying standing out, as well as often having a primary motivation to make art and not a product. That's all a generalisation of course and there's shit and great devs at all levels.
It's not so much that indies are more likely to come up with something new, it's more than there's stronger forces working against that with the bigger guys.
/reckon -
I didnt realise Activision owned Candy Crush.
Thats good for half a billion dollars in revenue a year alone. -
mistercrayon wrote:so if they keep it for 150 years its gravy after that!
As I mentioned somewhere recently, Microsoft don’t need to make this money back, they just need it to make a better return than it would have made in the bank. They can always sell Activision again if they want the cash. -
mistercrayon wrote:I think they just went to Notch and said: hey do you want two billion mate, give us minecraft.
Microsoft have more money than god so they can easily over spend.
"Hey guys, nice fedora! We have this console, but no games. People seem to like yours a lot, but you idio... Your wonderful team appears to have no interest in marketing it. If we give you this mammoth pile of luchini, will you take your hat, freeware tech, and fuck off into the Cali hills? I hear they have legal ganj...""I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996 -
GurtTractor wrote:Yeah I'm not trying to make an objective statement on this, a key part of what I said there is "at least that seems to be the case more often than not". It's a view primarily based on my own recent experiences with games, I can find little of interest in the big IPs and the output of the big publishers. The issue with any large company is the number of mouths you have to feed and shareholders to placate, so trying out a big change in direction might seem unsavoury. You want to just keep churning out more of what will make the money. Small devs have less to lose, and more to gain trying standing out, as well as often having a primary motivation to make art and not a product. That's all a generalisation of course and there's shit and great devs at all levels.
It's not so much that indies are more likely to come up with something new, it's more than there's stronger forces working against that with the bigger guys.
/reckon
Yeah. There was a patch a few years ago where every mega budget game I was playing was the same thing over and over. Endless sequels and stolen elements from other games. I haven’t really played any for a while now but it seems to have improved.
The main innovations in indie seem to influence mainly other indies. A smaller, less blatant version of the triple A effect. -
Crayon isn't far off. Notch tweeted about selling the game and Microsoft went "Are you actually serious?"
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If this might bring guitar hero back, it might just be worth it...SFV - reddave360
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dynamiteReady wrote:Big thing for Microsoft, thinking strategically, is that it buys them an immediate stronghold in the Asian gaming market*. Especially Korea and China.
This is it really, an absolute win for them with the likes of Starcraft being WILDLY popular in that region. -
RedDave2 wrote:If this might bring guitar hero back, it might just be worth it...
I feel like Guitar Hero and GamePass could work well together. -
So if I've been boycotting King over their attempts to own the word Candy, does this mean I have to sell my Xbox?
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Speedhaak wrote:
This is it really, an absolute win for them with the likes of Starcraft being WILDLY popular in that region.Big thing for Microsoft, thinking strategically, is that it buys them an immediate stronghold in the Asian gaming market*. Especially Korea and China.
Not only that:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1222288/china-popular-esports-games-played-by-pro-teams/
Strange metric to behold in a way, the number of people making money of the back of playing the games themselves. And just in one country too.
I suppose they're paying for a combo of this and CoD.
But it still feels, for me personally at least, like I'm missing something."I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996 -
dynamiteReady wrote:Speedhaak wrote:
This is it really, an absolute win for them with the likes of Starcraft being WILDLY popular in that region.Big thing for Microsoft, thinking strategically, is that it buys them an immediate stronghold in the Asian gaming market*. Especially Korea and China.
Not only that:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1222288/china-popular-esports-games-played-by-pro-teams/
Strange metric to behold in a way, the number of people making money of the back of the games themselves. And just in one country too.
I suppose they're paying for a combo of this and CoD.
But it still feels, for me personally at least, like I'm missing something.
Shit. That's what it is. It's breaking into Asia. There's where the money is.
Thinking about turning gamepass onto basically being a legit emulator - does this buy them Pitfall, for example? -
Microsoft are winning! Oo-rah! Get fucked, $ony!
Interesting though, innit. Microsoft are really making big boy plays now aren't they. Wow.
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MyNamesKrisG wrote:So if I've been boycotting King over their attempts to own the word Candy, does this mean I have to sell my Xbox?
x
Yes
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