The Star Wars thread - "Chewie, we're home." - The Bear and Badger

RamSteelwood

EvilRedEye wrote:

I feel like Phantom Menace took a lot of the brunt for people’s disappointment with the sequel trilogy in general but is arguably the closest to a cromulent film. Attack of the Clones is dreadful and the first half of Revenge of the Sith is also very bad but it seems Phantom Menace has ended up as the punching bag for all the rage. There are even a lot more practical effects in there than people think - IIRC it’s just the Gungans vs Droids battle that is all CGI and not mixed in with a lot of practical. Not that it’s a good film at all but it doesn’t deserve to be the nexus of prequel hate.

Agree. I've always felt phantom was best of the prequels. Damming with faint praise perhaps but the others just get worse and more stupid trying to link into everything we knew from the og. Much like the sequel trilogy too really.

LivDiv

Yeah it's the best of the lot, along with the tail end of Sith.

Sith could have been better but they neglected to develop the legendary relationship between Anakin and Obi Wan, or the early stages of Anakin's decent to the dark side properly in the previous movie.

I read Thrawn: Alliances last month. It is partially set just before Sith and has some really good Anakin development. Some good Vader stuff as well, really fleshes out how Vader views his past.

regmcfly

RamSteelwood wrote:

EvilRedEye wrote:

I feel like Phantom Menace took a lot of the brunt for people’s disappointment with the sequel trilogy in general but is arguably the closest to a cromulent film. Attack of the Clones is dreadful and the first half of Revenge of the Sith is also very bad but it seems Phantom Menace has ended up as the punching bag for all the rage. There are even a lot more practical effects in there than people think - IIRC it’s just the Gungans vs Droids battle that is all CGI and not mixed in with a lot of practical. Not that it’s a good film at all but it doesn’t deserve to be the nexus of prequel hate.

Agree. I've always felt phantom was best of the prequels. Damming with faint praise perhaps but the others just get worse and more stupid trying to link into everything we knew from the og. Much like the sequel trilogy too really.

I'm here too.

monkey

Revenge of the Sith for me is the pick of the prequels. Really because they've stopped trying to make them good and leant into the stupid a bit more. McGregor and the Emperor bloke are having more fun with it.

Force Awakens is solid enough. The last one is really bad but they did well to make anything after the mess they were left in after the second. Last Jedi is the worst for me as I thought it was genuinely insulting to it's audience and seemed to have no idea what your average punter wants from a star wars movie.

LivDiv

The prequel era actually has quite a large fan base now, owing heavily to the animated series I think.

The Lego Star Wars community is as much Clone Wars era as OG trilogy era. They are rabid too, you think Han shot first was a drama you haven't seen the issues around Lego Clone Trooper helmet holes or armour printing discrepancies.

Battlefront 2 is the same. Genuine anger that Anakin was added so late and loading it up now it's much easier to get a game on the Prequel era maps.

I don't think the Sequels will gain that much of a fan base when the 2010s kids get a disposable income.

monkey

It's streets ahead of stuff I was into as a kid in the 80s.
Apart from Star Wars.

LivDiv

They didn't do anything as stupid as killing Optimus Prime I guess.

mannaboy

I’m on the liking TLJ side, this article makes a lot of good points why:

http://www.zenofdesign.com/yes-the-last-jedi-rocks/

RedDave2

I can stand by saying that I liked the Last Jedi but it wasnt until I actually watched it with my daughter in sequence with the other movies that I can see why it is so disliked by many Star Wars fans. i dont think it breaks the narrative of the trilogy (not planning a narrative in the first place is the main issue) and I never bought the idea that it leaves the third movie with nowhere to go but it really is a jaring experience in tone and concept. It really does not fit with the other Star Wars stuff. That probably is by design but it pushes this idea way to far. There's something to be said for trying something new but as the mid point of a trilogy that was never a good idea.

RamSteelwood

It's just shite.

It's mark hamill i mostly feel for, being such an ambassador for the character and brand over the years then getting fucked over with that being his contribution to the new trilogy...

hylian_elf

The Last Jedi was a decent movie, just not a decent Star Wars.

superflyninja

Im firmly in the TLJ is awful camp. I still think Johnson got confused and thought he was making a Spaceballs sequel.

Anyone finish Jedi Survivor? I have some issues with the story (certain events should have been expanded and given more time etc) but it ends up in a fairly interesting place (hohoho).

LivDiv

Yeah Ive finished it.
It definitely has some odd pacing.
What were your issues (in spoilers obvs, I know a few are currently playing or keen to)

davyK

The sequels were tripe, beginning to end. But as usual there was the odd enjoyable bit.

Laura Dern with purple hair and that hyper space jump for example. Even though the whole situation leading to it was contrived nonsense.

Benicio Del Toro

The bit outside the cave with the blast door was amusing and a bit lovely looking with the x-fighters carving the sand up.

But there isn't much else I can even recall. The real issue is that there was no sense of threat from the so-called bad guys. Bunch of lightweights playing with Imperial hardware.

And I hate what they did to Luke too.

EvilRedEye

The thing I can’t forgive about the hyperspace collision is they couldn’t be bothered to figure out the in-universe mechanics of how it worked so it just became this awkward thing that adversely affected the continuity and produced that one really awkward line about why they couldn’t do it again in Rise of Skywalker. Just pick how it fucking worked! Jesus.

LivDiv

That stuff never bothered me too much about TLJ. Not gonna defend it because its shitty for those that notice it but didnt fuss me personally.

My biggest issue was the subverting expectations thing.
FA was extremely safe but it laid some foundations to do some interesting stuff later, particularly the supporting cast. Im not bothered if Finn and Poe ended up having bum sex or not but they should have been on an adventure together and that adventure should have been better than the one Rose and Finn went on.
I don't mind making Rey a nobody or killing Snoke but to what end? It should have been in service to something planned for the third film but instead just seemed to happen because the audience expected something else.

I was watching some random Maximillion-Dood stream a while back and he nailed it. Subverting expectation is absolutely fine but you have to replace the expected with something as good or better or you are just letting people down.

The mystery box really has to be at least objectively better than what you've already won or it sucks.

davyK

EvilRedEye wrote:

The thing I can’t forgive about the hyperspace collision is they couldn’t be bothered to figure out the in-universe mechanics of how it worked so it just became this awkward thing that adversely affected the continuity and produced that one really awkward line about why they couldn’t do it again in Rise of Skywalker. Just pick how it fucking worked! Jesus.

heh Aye. A complete display of fuckwittery.

It could have been rather good if they had cut themselves loose from trying to continue the story so tightly. I quite liked the threesome. But they wasted the talent.

They could have gone anywhere but fucked it all up. I mean - bringing the fucking Emperor back? What a load of old bollocks that totally wipes out the Anakin/Vader story arc.

EvilRedEye

I think it’s really Rise of Skywalker going back on Kylo Ren being the big bad of the trilogy that retroactively makes Snoke’s death a bit shit rather than it all being Rian Johnson’s fault. A tiny bit of exposition setting out what Snoke’s deal was would have made it better (and prevented Abrams coming up with that awful clonecast or whatever it was plot point in RoS) but other than that I don’t think it was inherently bad on Johnson’s end.

LivDiv

I blame Disney more than Johnson for the lack of planning for the trilogy.
Its their role to shepherd the director through the over arching plot if they are bringing in a different director mid trilogy.

EvilRedEye

I genuinely think it should have been really easy to make the sequel trilogy the best Star Wars films ever, just by virtue of being able to make a proper trilogy leaning on the audience being much more media-literate and having easy access to previous instalments via streaming.

And instead of they completely fumbled the bag and had each film in the trilogy straining to work against the previous ones as much as possible.

davyK

Snoke was wasted as well. Could have done with a bit more work on the design but could they not conjure up a boss bad guy without resorting to CGI? Jesus.

Darth Maul was wasted in the prequels too but that was a proper henchman.

LivDiv

I'd love to know what the ideas were that were floating around pre TLJ.
I have no idea if there was anything locked in but Abrams and the writing staff must have some ideas of what these characters were going to do in films 2 and 3.

superflyninja

LivDiv wrote:

Yeah Ive finished it. It definitely has some odd pacing. What were your issues (in spoilers obvs, I know a few are currently playing or keen to)

Spoilers agogo:

Spoiler:

LivDiv

Yeah can't really argue with any of that.

Spoiler:

superflyninja

LivDiv wrote:

Yeah can't really argue with any of that.

Spoiler:

Main baddie I think was an idealist that turned obsessive which seems to be a bit of a Jedi turned dark side trope. I don't think you missed anything there, just not a very well fleshed out villain. Bode definitely came out of left field, which I did enjoy but it was very much one of them twists that you couldn't have seen coming because they gave us nothing. Although saying that I didn't spend much time talking to him except when I had to. The story definitely builds to something of a cliff hanger. It did make me want more which is I am sure what they were after. But yeah lacked the epic ending of the first game with Vader. The Cere-Vader fight was good mind. They better not fuck it. I want Cal going full dark side even if he redeems himself later in the next game. No wishy washy binning off of the dark side inside 5 minutes of the game. Loved having that new rage mode, the bit at the base carving up waves of droids was great fun.

Yep agree with all that too. Cant wait for the next game. Is there a next game actually?
Some of the fights in that game though...woo I played mostly on Jedi Master but I had to go to easy for a few. Find yourself favouring any stances in particular?

LivDiv

Pretty sure the third has been confirmed in writing but nothing else.
Would be shitty if there wasn't a third now.

LivDiv

I went Easy throughout.
Single handed was always default. I enjoyed the Blaster stance, that added something unique.

The only one I didn't like was the heavy stance.

superflyninja

LivDiv wrote:

I went Easy throughout. Single handed was always default. I enjoyed the Blaster stance, that added something unique. The only one I didn't like was the heavy stance.

Yeah there better be a 3rd....Im almost half afraid to wish for it, but it would be cool to get Cal in live action. Ive seen a couple of BTS vids and he looks pretty handy with a lightsaber!

Ha, I never once tried the blaster stance. I concentrated mainly on the dual/double styles. Ill probably do a new game + at some point and try some different movesets.

MattyJ

Duel blade for me mostly too. Only bit I turned difficulty down for was the

Spoiler:

superflyninja

MattyJ wrote:

Duel blade for me mostly too. Only bit I turned difficulty down for was the

Spoiler:

Vader fight. Because he did so much damage, plus one hit kill move, plus mutli stage fight... Just no.

There was another.....

Spoiler:

Howdy, Stranger!

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