Games what "we" wrote
  • LazyGunn wrote:
    Ogles 2.0 isnt too horrible.. i mean, when i first started with mobile dev it was on a Desire that was a slideshow as soon as a pixel light appeared and i despaired a little, although in the end things ran, and the game got finished. I got an S2 though and despite having compile my own java class to get it using a 32bit buffer (since fixed by unity, after i bitched a lot it seems), its Mali chip just flew, and i was surprised at the sort of things that i could get happening on it, it gt quite awe inspiring - my fiancees s3 is a source of much excitement when i play with it
    Yeah - mobile cpu and gpu capabilities are certainly giving Moore's Law a run for it's money :-)
    .. would still kill to get some form of fur shader working quickly in SM2 though
     
    FWIW - I would have thought standard fur shader (shells and fins) should work fine in SM2.0. 
    Shells in the vert shader is dead easy and can be done for anything really - multiple passes of the vert and pixel shader pair with staggered expand in direction of vert normals in each pass of the vert shader - then that expand amount or pass index shader constant also used to offset along a fur texture map from root to tip. 
    Fins is more complex - relatively easy if you have geometry shaders but doable even without, you just have to have degenerate quads at each edge.
    It's what I did for Puss In Boots, worked nicely and mid to long range - didn't use fins as didn't have GS and didn't want to blow the vert budget on redundant quads at every poly intersection. Obviously lots more to the control maps for art edit and deferred lighting meant extruding the light values from base solid mesh render position, but it's basically just old school fur shells tweaked a shitload.
  • Ive had a look at a couple of implementations, well, 2, essentially, both shells naturally, one is even for Unity and on the unity wiki but my shader ineptitude is causing me issues - it seems simple up to the point where it'll run on sm3 but says it needs both vert and fragment shaders to run in a ogles2 platform and.. im not sure how to add a fragment shader to the code, and theres a bajillion passes which made sense but wondered if i could put that in a loop. Its forward rendered so theres lesstrickery in that regard (iirc) but i also have to look at more control maps too. Oh well, because shaders are a little mixed in with Unity's own system (like how to get shader variables from the inspector to the shader) its a bit much asking you to look at it but if you ever have a free moment id def appreciate you having a look, if you havent the time though, its perfectly fine,  shouldnt really be asking people to do this work for me. Just wish i was more of a shader whizz.
  • I'll have a crack downloading the free Unity thingy on the weekend, but dunno anything about it so wouldn't really know where to start looking into its shader handling TBH - but I gotta presume it's documented enough with example projects that I can dig about. If it's easy enough to frig about with shaders I might be able to come up with something on the weekend.

    Was it this one? http://wiki.unity3d.com/index.php/Fur
    I googled "wiki unity fur" and there was this forum post and link to a fixed (?) version of the fur shader for unity 3:
    http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/29162/fur-shader-unity-3.html
    http://wiki.unity3d.com/index.php?title=Fur_(Unity3)

    Dunno if that's any help.
  • monkey wrote:
    Skerret wrote:
    111,000 downloads
    *splurts coffee* Bloody hell. Congratulations. That's amazing.
    big time well done!!!!
    http://horganphoto.com My STILL under construction website
    PSN : superflyninja
  • djchump wrote:
    I'll have a crack downloading the free Unity thingy on the weekend, but dunno anything about it so wouldn't really know where to start looking into its shader handling TBH - but I gotta presume it's documented enough with example projects that I can dig about. If it's easy enough to frig about with shaders I might be able to come up with something on the weekend. Was it this one? http://wiki.unity3d.com/index.php/Fur I googled "wiki unity fur" and there was this forum post and link to a fixed (?) version of the fur shader for unity 3: http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/29162/fur-shader-unity-3.html http://wiki.unity3d.com/index.php?title=Fur_(Unity3) Dunno if that's any help.

    Ahh yep,the latest version of the fur shader in the Wiki was an improved version of a user-coded one that Aras from the unity graphics guys cleaned up, and works fine in 3, and i presume in 4 but not with OGLES2.0 (I cant remember if its a platform specific or SM2 issue). You'd probably know your way around it easily and really unity's shader writing interface is pretty good, you can code in CG, HLSL or GLSL as you please although it lacks some semantics its just wrapped up in a way that Unity can use, if you look at reference you'll figure it fast though. I wish you good fortune with Unity! I'm not sure how you'll find it compared to a serious development orientated pipeline, especially in its unaltered form. The forums are a great place for stuff, as is Answers, and the the documentation isnt (mostly) terrible (it is sometimes actually) and some very smart guy gives the lowdown on shader writing for Unity here but i think most of that you'll breeze through. I'd like to hear your thoughts after a little bit with it for sure anyways, i'd be interested in your perspective on it. There's not much changing my mind on wether its the right platform, the alternatives are really not alternatives, but its nice to hear what people think.

    Oh and for anyone interested, here's the graffix from above in a kind of 'gameplay' context but its not very good, not very good at all, for all the time i spent on the graphics i have to get it running on gma 950 chipset and the 'gameplay' is around 3 hours old, arrow keys to drive, press 'a' if you get stuck or fall over, which will happen a lot here
  • acemuzzy
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    So my unity presentation got chosen as one to give at our upcoming Engineering Conference. 40-odd people in the audience, including some seniors.

    #bittenoffmorethanicanchew
  • Good luck ace. Just imagine then all looking at you naked, or something.
  • best o luck! Just dont imagine the naked audience with massive erections.That could be distracting
    http://horganphoto.com My STILL under construction website
    PSN : superflyninja
  • well todays good news is ive been told i can probably get a bunch of help towards acquiring those precious unity pro licenses in 6 months time or so, whoop
  • Nice! :-)
    Btw - I grabbed Unity week or so ago and had a quick squizz at it, manage to get some kind of flat plane of water to preview with their stock shader thingy. Not had a chane to dig into the art/shader pipeline yet but if you have a small testrig project for that fur shader (or any other kinda shader thats been hassling you) then if you stick it in the forum Dropbox ill have a look when I can ;-) if its too big to Dropbox I can maybe figure out google docs or some other way to make a share space.
  • Ahh cheers! I can put together a unitypackage that might show you around that aspect of it a bit, my attentions off the fur for now but i'll set something up so you can have a look at it

    I'll host it myself, but yes generally to check a shader that isnt one of their stock ones you can generally just double click it in the project view and it'll open in monodevelop by default, i'll get it sorted tomorrow
  • Hi @LazyGunn, just a quick unity question to distract you from your amazing and complicated graphics stuff...do you have any knowledge/experience of the built in networking stuff for multiplayer etc?  basically as in is the performance of it good enough or is it better to go elsewhere?  i ask because i just went through a simple tutorial, then ran two sessions where i connected to myself locally, but the performance on the 'client' was noticeably jerky compared to the 'host' session...
    "Like i said, context is missing."
    http://ssgg.uk
  • I havent really touched that aspect myself yet but theres some good integration with other networking middleware, like Photon, ive read. You might find stuff in the asset store apertaning to it, wish i could help more
  • acemuzzy
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    Not used any unity stuff, but my understanding of networking in general is that you need to be careful how much your sending down the wire etc. In the tutorial, what kind of information was flowing / how often?
  • RE: Networking - NEVER trust the client.
    There may be some net smoothing params can be tweaked somewhere so the client doesn't get instantly teleported each time it receives a position update from the host.
  • in the final part of the tutorial, the 'server' was authoritative for movement, the client would just send it's 'inputs' (x axis and y axis)...the server applied it to the movement then sent out the transform of each object.

    i think it was about as simple as it could be really...but when i used lidgren network stuff with xna, i could run 8 sessions locally and they all ran buttery smooth.

    difference there of course is 2d versus 3d, but unity version was only a flat cube for the floor and 2 cubes moving about.....although i did use a point light instead of a direction light, but hopefully it wouldn't impact performance that much.

    i'll do some other testing and stuff, i didn't really try any troubleshooting, it was the end of the night so I was really just checking that it wasn't a well known 'no no' to use Unity's built in stuff.

    i'll check out that photon stuff too, cheers.
    "Like i said, context is missing."
    http://ssgg.uk
  • acemuzzy
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    I survived :-)

    Actually, the thing went pretty well I think.  Stayed calm, and got my game "finished" in plenty of time.  (10m intro, 40min game, 10mins questions kind of thing.)

    Linky below if you're curious to see the quality I delivered, lol.  

    www.positronicarts.com/games/unity/gamedev101/WebPlayer.html

    (@edit: link fixed - but I wouldn't get too excited, it was better when it was broken...!)
  • nice work ace.

    also, it looks like it was just the default 'sendrate' of the networking was making it jerky...set a higher number and it's all smooth now.
    "Like i said, context is missing."
    http://ssgg.uk
  • Good work ace! And glad to see you got it fixed Ram, sorry for not getting back to you yet Chump, i've been a bit scattered all week and so ive been crap at doing things that involve any thinking that isnt directly what im doing aha, but i'll try get a quick scene set up for you when i next wake, was thinking of something like the fur on a test rig and some other shaders i DOunderstand but have faffed with so you might get an idea of unity's surface shaders and how they differ (by differ they just do a lot of stuff for you) from normal CG vert/fragment shaders and some frankesteinian monster shaders ive made fromthese things. That you'll prob laugh at for being outrageously over-costly, but that said i'd appreciate advice on how to speed a shader up certainly!

    If you think there are any 'must have' shader sort of things i could use i'd love to know of them, one i can think of in particular is a FFT or something like that-powered water shader that still worked at a mobile-level cost if at all possible just for wavy water on high end mobiles. In fact i'll tell you now, if you pulled that off, you could clean up nicely on the unity asset store, along with all sorts of cool shadery stuff actually. There's this awesome shader writing guy on their forums who goes by Farfarer who just seems to offer amazing shader snippets all the time on a whim and he never charges, its crazy when i think about it given im sure you could make a tidy margin offering shader collections on the asset store that blow the competitions' out of the water, even ones that might only have niche uses. Or definitely a collection that through some method can be kinda modular without going the full blown shader node editor route.
  • No worries Gunn - when you've got something just gimme a shout. Fur's fun, anything else you want speeding up a bit I'll see what I can do.

    I've been meaning start doing some stuff at home to stay sharp and try new stuff, so it's a good opportunity for me to get experience in Unity and start building up a non-work library of shaders and FX gubbins. Preferably HLSL but GLSL is fine. Once I've got some stuff together I'll package it somehow - but depending how deep down the rabbithole I get sucked timescale will probably be in the order of a few weeks (maybe months), you know how it is ;-)

    That Farfarer guy's good - 3D chap at Rockstar Leeds. Some nice stuff on his blog.

    I did the fluid sim shaders for PuF so that's deffo something I'll put on my Unity TODO list :-)
    The asset store sounds cool, will check it out.
  • Def check out the asset store, its basically a kinda outlet for unity users to sell their unity based stuff for other users, theres some great stuff and some not so great and its a good way to see how you can contribute for either fun or money.

    You can use any shading language you fancy, Unity compiles it all its own way sometimes lacking some particular syntax, but you can use hlsl, glsl or, as you'll find most examples are in, CG. There's also Unity's own Surface Shader approach which is quite ok for a range of things and tries to simplify things a great deal, its especially good for getting stuck in and just compositing effects but you'll prob outgrow it quickly

    I said i'd get something together today but i think i lied, i woke up at 7pm then bought rum so that buggered, but i'm going to try get something together that will get you stuck in to it properly - a nice resource however is http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/GLSL_Programming/Unity for having a look into the meat and bones, i dont actually know any hlsl examples but i have read you can use it, maybe its a matter of experimentation
  • acemuzzy
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    Right, I've decided to code some shizzle over the festive period.  but can't decide what.

    And can't even decide whether to use Unity or try BlitzMax, which @Nick's brother seems to prefer...  Always like learning new stuff it must be said... though converting my boxy game to Android would be another fun task if I can get myself a phone (which Santa may assist with...).

    So - IDEAS FOR GAMES TO WRITE PLEASE, WHICH DON'T REQUIRE ANY ARTISTIC COMPETENCE.  Nice one.  You can get a 10% equity stake.
  • Qix? That's one you don't see often.
  • acemuzzy
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    I'd loved Qiz.  It has similarities with my cuby game actually, in vague feel if nothing else.   Maybe Qix3D?!
  • acemuzzy
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    PS. You get 5% as it's a "maybe".
  • Qix 3D would be interesting to see. And by "interesting to see" I mean I can't figure out how you'd make it work.
  • lol, like this, maybe:

    ZPYsi.png
  • acemuzzy
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    Heh.  Reminds me of an ex :|
  • How the hell does... no, wait, I don't want to know.

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