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Was there none of this anti-semitism in the Labour Party before Corbyn became leader then? Don't recall any other leaders being accused of failing to control it. Must be new, I guess. -
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They would have that down in that London.g.man wrote:Never hear of it in the north.Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
"I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz -
JonB wrote:Was there none of this anti-semitism in the Labour Party before Corbyn became leader then? Don't recall any other leaders being accused of failing to control it. Must be new, I guess.
Most leaders haven’t been quite as flat-footed around dealing with these issues as Corbyn. -
But Corbyn is seen as pro Palestine, anti Israel. I wonder why some people would want to make it look like he was failing to tackle anti semitism? -
I don’t doubt for a second that people are using this as a stick to beat him with, that doesn’t mean that there is no issue and this can all be ignored or dismissed as a conspiracy.
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Most leaders never had to deal with it because there wasn't a campaign in the party to oust them.Yossarian wrote:
Most leaders haven’t been quite as flat-footed around dealing with these issues as Corbyn.JonB wrote:Was there none of this anti-semitism in the Labour Party before Corbyn became leader then? Don't recall any other leaders being accused of failing to control it. Must be new, I guess.
Anyway, here's a Twitter thing with links to various articles that might be of interest.
https://twitter.com/hackneyglyn/status/1019850274868006912
This one is worth a read at least:
IHRA doesn’t go far enough – Labour’s new anti-Semitism guidelines are MORE comprehensive
Jennie Formby, General Secretary of the Labour Party, writes for Jewish News on how party members have now been empowered with the tools to challenge anti-Semitism wherever it rears its ugly head. -
I actually take no issue at all with this IHRA stuff, if it was on its own we wouldn’t be having this conversation, but it’s not. As I say, this has been going on for months, and it’s come from far too many angles for me to be able to dismiss as a conspiracy.
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I'm still not really getting it - you're saying that there's clearly more anti-semites in the Tory Party, that is currently in power, than there is in the Labour Party, but because of Corbyn not stamping it out in the Labour Party, it's more important to point fingers at Labour than the Tories?
I mean, I don't want to be all "butwhataboutism", but why is it a problem for Labour/Corbyn but not the Tories? Because we know and expect the Tories to be shitbergs, so we hold Labour up to better/higher standards ...?! -
Who are the legit outed anti-Semites in the Labour Party at this point? There must be a list. -
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, or that it's not an issue. But people that wouldn't normally make it an issue are making much more of it than they would normally, and that's because they want rid of Corbyn.
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I’m not pointing fingers at anyone, I’m saying that dismissing the concerns of a marginalised group as a conspiracy in a progressive, anti-racist organisation is a pretty shitty thing to do.
Edit: Chump. -
GooberTheHat wrote:I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, or that it's not an issue. But people that wouldn't normally make it an issue are making much more of it than they would normally, and that's because they want rid of Corbyn.
I don’t disagree with that. -
It's nuts is what it is.
Corbyn has now done more than anyone to deal with anti-Semitism in his party. And you've still got people in his own part calling him a racist and anti-Semite.
No one made an issue with it in the party before he was leader, and no one makes an issue of it in other parties. Baroness Warsi made a speech about widespread Islamophobia in the Conservative Party not long ago - resulting scandal: next to fuck all. And no, the Tories don't brand themselves as Islamophobics.
It's a total stitch up.
Not to say there's no anti-Semitism in Labour, but this is a pile on by a load of political and media figures sensing a chance to do some real damage. -
But the amount of press and the way this keeps rolling on seems kinda weird, surely? Given that we know the Tories are worse? Like, do the Tory Party even have anti-semitism guidelines?Yossarian wrote:I’m not pointing fingers at anyone, I’m saying that dismissing the concerns of a marginalised group as a conspiracy in a progressive, anti-racist organisation is a pretty shitty thing to do. Edit: Chump. -
But the Tories is bollocks. Of course the Tories are antisemitic, of course they’re racist, of course they’re sexist, that’s part of the reason that people vote for them, that’s who they represent.
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And there are a number of reasons that this keeps rolling around in the media, part of it may well be owing to a campaign to undermine Corbyn, but it’s just possible that that is not the only reason, no?
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Not sure that part made it into the manifesto.Yossarian wrote:But the Tories is bollocks. Of course the Tories are antisemitic, of course they’re racist, of course they’re sexist, that’s part of the reason that people vote for them, that’s who they represent. -
They don’t say it out loud, obvs.
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Riiight, so what do the Jewish folk you follow on Twitter have to say about that? Is it just a big shrug then back to bashing Corbyn?Yossarian wrote:But the Tories is bollocks. Of course the Tories are antisemitic, of course they’re racist, of course they’re sexist, that’s part of the reason that people vote for them, that’s who they represent.
So, there isn't a conspiracy, but maybe there is a bit of one? eh?Yossarian wrote:And there are a number of reasons that this keeps rolling around in the media, part of it may well be owing to a campaign to undermine Corbyn, but it’s just possible that that is not the only reason, no? -
djchump wrote:
But the amount of press and the way this keeps rolling on seems kinda weird, surely? Given that we know the Tories are worse? Like, do the Tory Party even have anti-semitism guidelines?Yossarian wrote:I’m not pointing fingers at anyone, I’m saying that dismissing the concerns of a marginalised group as a conspiracy in a progressive, anti-racist organisation is a pretty shitty thing to do. Edit: Chump.
It's almost like there is a concerted effort to keep the conversation about this in the public eye for a prolonged period of time. Long enough to establish the narrative that "Labour under Corbyn is anti semitic" in the public consciousness, while simultaneously distracting everyone from the car crash that is the current state of the government. -
Of course it’s a stitch-up, and a distraction, and exactly what the Mail et al would be love to be doing if the Guardian weren’t doing it for them.
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Well if anti-Semitism in Labour isn't worse than in other parties, and if Labour have clearly taken measures to do something about it (as they have), then no, I can't see one.Yossarian wrote:And there are a number of reasons that this keeps rolling around in the media, part of it may well be owing to a campaign to undermine Corbyn, but it’s just possible that that is not the only reason, no? -
I've typed this post a few times but keep deleting it, but more and more I'm feeling like the Right is effectively gaslighting the Left.
Holding up minor failures in Left policies/people and shouting about them, ignoring the much larger failures on the Right.
When the Right does shitty things, pointing blame at the Left for "not stopping them" and "letting it happen".
Extreme case being when Right-wing nuts murder by driving cars into crowds, but somehow antifa protestors are "just as bad" because they maybe pushed a bin over or smashed a window. Fucking hell, there's no equivalence here. -
I’m genuinely a bit concerned by all this conspiracy stuff. I mean, as I say, I don’t doubt that there are people taking advantage of the situation, but the idea that there’s some concerted media narrative being pushed by everyone from the news media to individual celebrities on Twitter all in order to undermine Corbyn over something which doesn’t even exist is genuinely a bit nuts, IMO.
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djchump wrote:I've typed this post a few times but keep deleting it, but more and more I'm feeling like the Right is effectively gaslighting the Left.
Holding up minor failures in Left policies/people and shouting about them, ignoring the much larger failures on the Right.
When the Right does shitty things, pointing blame at the Left for "not stopping them" and "letting it happen".
Extreme case being when Right-wing nuts murder by driving cars into crowds, but somehow antifa protestors are "just as bad" because they maybe pushed a bin over or smashed a window. Fucking hell, there's no equivalence here.
Of course not, but I have no interest in the Conservatives changing, all I want is for them to lose power and never regain it. Why would I waste my time trying to reform a party that I never want to see in power? -
If the guardian genuinely wanted the Tories out they wouldn’t continually try to undermine the best chance we’ve had to get that in years or for years to come.
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Yossarian wrote:I’m genuinely a bit concerned by all this conspiracy stuff. I mean, as I say, I don’t doubt that there are people taking advantage of the situation, but the idea that there’s some concerted media narrative being pushed by everyone from the news media to individual celebrities on Twitter all in order to undermine Corbyn over something which doesn’t even exist is genuinely a bit nuts, IMO.
More opportunism than conspiracy I think. -
It's not about some massive conspiracy. Maybe some elements in the Labour party are conspiring, but more than anything they know by kicking up a stink about something as sensitive as anti-Semitism they can get continued media attention, get members of other parties putting the boot in etc. And yes, even left-leaning comedians and the like will feel a need to say something, because who likes anti-Semitism, right?Yossarian wrote:I’m genuinely a bit concerned by all this conspiracy stuff. I mean, as I say, I don’t doubt that there are people taking advantage of the situation, but the idea that there’s some concerted media narrative being pushed by everyone from the news media to individual celebrities on Twitter all in order to undermine Corbyn over something which doesn’t even exist is genuinely a bit nuts, IMO. -
GooberTheHat wrote:Yossarian wrote:I’m genuinely a bit concerned by all this conspiracy stuff. I mean, as I say, I don’t doubt that there are people taking advantage of the situation, but the idea that there’s some concerted media narrative being pushed by everyone from the news media to individual celebrities on Twitter all in order to undermine Corbyn over something which doesn’t even exist is genuinely a bit nuts, IMO.
More opportunism than conspiracy I think.
Quite.
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