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  • I won't have this bickering, as far as I'm concerned you are both Pamela Anderson.
  • Kow
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    Well, you're certainly a right tit.
  • So who is left?
  • Because I am a sad cunt, I decided to Google what nick Cohen has written about Assange. Because I am lazy, I didn't go past the second hit, but it was good enough. Ah, Nick Cohen. Why on earth is he still being paid by the guardian for his utter gobshite?
    The right does not have a monopoly on paranoia, as the conspiratorial fantasies of supporters of Julian Assange show. Glenn Greenwald, Glenn Beck's namesake and mirror image on the American left, made it embarrassingly obvious in the Guardian last week that a paranoid "leftist" defence of an alleged rapist was the order of the day. Greenwald argued that Assange was not a coward who dare not face his Swedish accusers but a true dissident, who was camping out in the Ecuadorean embassy because he had a genuine fear of persecution. America "would be able to coerce Sweden into handing him over far more easily than if he were in Britain", he explained.

    It was a small country "generally more susceptible to American pressure and bullying". The poor man did not know that Britain has a notoriously lax extradition treaty with the United States, which the liberal-minded have condemned for almost a decade. Nor did he blink at what must be the crankiest request for refugee status ever. Assange is the first asylum seeker to claim persecution at three removes. He wants to renounce his Australian citizenship and become an Ecuadorean because (and you may have to bear with me) the Australian government failed to help him fight an attempt by the British government to extradite to him to Sweden, whose government may, at some undefined point, extradite him to the United States – or maybe not, because there is no extradition request.


    More pertinently, Greenwald and the rest of Assange's supporters do not tell us how the Americans could prosecute the incontinent leaker. American democracy is guilty of many crimes and corruptions. But the First Amendment to the US constitution is the finest defence of freedom of speech yet written. The American Civil Liberties Union thinks it would be unconstitutional for a judge to punish Assange.

    The authorities can threaten the wretched Bradley Manning and hold him in solitary confinement because he was a serving soldier when he passed information to Assange. But WikiLeaks was in effect a newspaper. From the 1970s, when the New York Times printed the Pentagon Papers, to today's accounts of secret prisons and the bugging of US citizens, the American courts "have made clear that the First Amendment protects independent third parties who publish classified information". Maybe the authorities could prosecute Assange for alleged links with hackers. I don't know – unlike Assange, I cannot see the future. But why would they bother to imprison him when he is making such a good job of discrediting himself?


    From June 2012

    https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/24/nick-cohen-julian-assange-paranoia
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  • regmcfly
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    Anyone able to explain the Corbyn stance on Assamge without my ear leaking my brain. How does this benefit him or not support sexual assault
  • How does demanding he not be extradited to the US over Wikileaks support sexual assault?
  • His base mostly support Assange. He probably does support Assange in the sense that WikiLeaks Exposed (in "collateral damage") how violent the occupation of Iraq was, and he is anti war if he is anything. Manning had approached two MSM outlets with his leak, and both turned him down flat. WikiLeaks didn't.

    You'll have to explain the "support sexual assault" bit more fully, as I don't see the relationship with the Assange tweet wot Corbyn did.
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  • How does demanding he not be extradited to the US over Wikileaks support sexual assault?

    Sexual assault is definitely 100% Corbyn's fault

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  • How does demanding he not be extradited to the US over Wikileaks support sexual assault?

    That right there. I feel I don't know enough about this to really say how it should be, but the us issue is over the leaks and the swedish one would be the sexual assault allegation. I'm guessing if he goes to Sweden for that than Corbyn stance might change. If he goes to the us and goes down for leaks, than it's nothingto do with theassault
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  • GooberTheHat
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    Assange isn't at risk of extradition over sexual assault charges. He is at risk of extradition over hacking charges.

    Corbyn's position is, as far as I can tell, he shouldn't be extradited for publishing evidence of war crimes.

    I think it is politically unwise as its just extra ammunition his opponents can throw at him in the "Corbyn is a weak anti West lefty Liberal supporter of terrorists and Russia" argument. But he is at least remaining consistent with his ideals, and as gonz says, a lot of his base support Assange.
  • dynamiteReady
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    Did Assange straight up get kicked out for being a neckbeard?

    https://www.wired.com/?intcid=inline_amp
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
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  • Corbyn loves rapists & sexual assault, obvs.

    He loves them like he hates the Jews.
  • https://twitter.com/Archimbaldo/status/1116671950250749952?s=19

    Sorry it's a twitter thread. Seems useful summary.
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  • Answer came there none. Oh well, I guess it wasn't truly a request for some info from old H, he just wanted to do a very lazy short post having a go at Corbo while at the same time, not engaging at all. I'm sure what's happening now is, we're all rabid and rude. It is 100% ozno and Larry's fault that it's 100% Corbo's fault that that Assange is a rapist. We're enabling the enablers.

    Christ alive, eh. The modern liberal.
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  • Personally, I just thought it was good that Corbyn went where previous Labour leaders would have been too cowed and cowardly to dare venture and questioned the hounding of someone for exposing horrible war crimes (“look at those dead fuckers” etc). Politically ‘naive’ maybe, morally correct.
    IMO, etc.

    Given that the obvious,’correct’, career minded & sensible choice would have been to hop on board with the sanctimonious witch-hunt and whoop and holler about Assange’s arrest it’s quite brave actually (or naive and stupid, depending on your viewpoint).

    Not that I support rape or anything. If he was guilty of that, he should be charged obviously. But that never seemed like the real reason he was cooped up in the Ecuadorean embassy tending his beard for seven years anyway - it was because he dared expose the criminal actions of the US military.

    (And published some other shit, not all of it wisely post-‘collatoral murder’)
  • I think there is a middle ground where he could have acknowledged the sexual assault accusations and separated them from the espionage accusations.

    That is the smarts that I want from Corbyn, to start to pre-empt the media attack.
  • He probably assumes he’ll get attacked anyway though, smarts or not.

    The only way he could avoid it would be to fundamentally change his entire political outlook and get on board with the people he hates and the ideology he opposes.
  • GooberTheHat
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    LivDiv wrote:
    I think there is a middle ground where he could have acknowledged the sexual assault accusations and separated them from the espionage accusations.

    That is the smarts that I want from Corbyn, to start to pre-empt the media attack.

    Corbyn opposes his extradition to America. America don't want to extradite him for sexual assault, that's Sweden.

    That is separating the accusations.
  • regmcfly
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    Thanks for all for separating it. Goddam it ozno for not letting me go to town and come back and read stuffm
  • Yossarian
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    I can’t claim to be entirely across all of this, but my understanding is that the charge against Assange from the States is entirely relating to hacking as Assange is said to have offered Manning help breaking a password. Nothing to do with espionage, treason or publishing anything.

    I’m not saying that more serious charges won’t be brought once he reaches the States, and clearly the fact of the US pursuing this for so long is because of what he revealed, but as long as we’re separating things out, I do think it’s worth separating that out too (unless I’ve missed something and there have been other charges).
  • LivDiv wrote:
    I think there is a middle ground where he could have acknowledged the sexual assault accusations and separated them from the espionage accusations. That is the smarts that I want from Corbyn, to start to pre-empt the media attack.
    Corbyn opposes his extradition to America. America don't want to extradite him for sexual assault, that's Sweden. That is separating the accusations.

    It is indeed but not specifically.
    Like he literally needs to the words or the press will pounce. 

    "I do believe he should face charges of sexual assault and would back extradition to Sweden". Something like that, dont allow the media to fill the gaps.
  • Yossarian wrote:
    I can’t claim to be entirely across all of this, but my understanding is that the charge against Assange from the States is entirely relating to hacking as Assange is said to have offered Manning help breaking a password. Nothing to do with espionage, treason or publishing anything.

    I’m not saying that more serious charges won’t be brought once he reaches the States, and clearly the fact of the US pursuing this for so long is because of what he revealed, but as long as we’re separating things out, I do think it’s worth separating that out too (unless I’ve missed something and there have been other charges).

    Sorry, what does "separating out" mean, what is the object of your post?

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  • GooberTheHat
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    They'd still only headline the incriminating bit, and remove all context.
  • They'd still only headline the incriminating bit, and remove all context.
    They wouldn't be able to say "Corbyn backs sex offender accused", not without being done for libel.
  • GooberTheHat
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    He would still be backing an accused sex offender though.
  • Yossarian
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    Yossarian wrote:
    I can’t claim to be entirely across all of this, but my understanding is that the charge against Assange from the States is entirely relating to hacking as Assange is said to have offered Manning help breaking a password. Nothing to do with espionage, treason or publishing anything.

    I’m not saying that more serious charges won’t be brought once he reaches the States, and clearly the fact of the US pursuing this for so long is because of what he revealed, but as long as we’re separating things out, I do think it’s worth separating that out too (unless I’ve missed something and there have been other charges).

    Sorry, what does "separating out" mean, what is the object of your post?

    Just accuracy.
  • Yossarian wrote:
    Yossarian wrote:
    I can’t claim to be entirely across all of this, but my understanding is that the charge against Assange from the States is entirely relating to hacking as Assange is said to have offered Manning help breaking a password. Nothing to do with espionage, treason or publishing anything.

    I’m not saying that more serious charges won’t be brought once he reaches the States, and clearly the fact of the US pursuing this for so long is because of what he revealed, but as long as we’re separating things out, I do think it’s worth separating that out too (unless I’ve missed something and there have been other charges).

    Sorry, what does "separating out" mean, what is the object of your post?

    Just accuracy.

    That's interesting

    The tweet in question was

    The extradition of Julian Assange to the US for exposing evidence of atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan should be opposed by the British government.

    What Reg asked was
    Anyone able to explain the Corbyn stance on Assamge without my ear leaking my brain. How does this benefit him or not support sexual assault

    What we "separated out" was the issue of facing charges in sweden for sexual offences and the issue of facing extradition to the US for exposing evidence of atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    So what you did, after all these posts, is urge us to "separate out" a charge of conspiracy to decrypt a password, to wit to "expose evidence of atrocities in Iraq, Afghanistan (and Guantanamo")..

    From a charge of espionnage for doing the same thing (which you admit may well be fortcoming, and the DoJ has confirmed it may well bring more charges)

    I'm mainly interested in why you thing this "separating out" is relevant. It's clearly not relevant to Corbyn's tweet, right? There is no separating it out to be done.

    I'm baffled...


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  • Yossarian
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    It wasn’t meant in relation to either Reg’s question or Corbyn’s tweet, it was a more general statement about what Assange was being extradited for as it seemed that a few people ITT were under the impression that he was being charged with other crimes. Apols if unclear.
  • I think people here are operating under the assumption that Assange will get the full shabang, after all Pompeo has declared war on what he described as a non-state intelligence agency.

    Some other people - particularly in the media - are going by the "he'll only do 5 years tops because he was charged with aiding and abetting a hack"

    The same people who thought talk of extradition to the US was laughable conspiracist nonsense. Check out the article I linked for an example.
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