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  • GooberTheHat
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    No, it's not.
  • You want a toe?  Hell, I can get you a toe by 3:00.
    I am a FREE. I am not MAN. A NUMBER.
  • Cos
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    With nail polish.
  • davyK
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    Tickled me at any rate..

    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • b0r1s
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    The BBC really have given up on being an independent body reporting the news to just outright being the mouthpiece of the government.

    See how the beeb headline the same story about the removal of statues as the independent in the news today.

    CD5-E1-CF5-1-AA1-47-A2-8-BC2-4-C3-F94-E63-E10.jpg

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  • Ah yes, we must protect statues of old rich slave owning white men. Can't believe that people are so rude as to be *checks notes* tired of looking at the faces of a load of old racists that don't deserve to be sitting on pedestals and are tied to the roots of the systems which now cause so much disparity in people's basic living conditions in 2020.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • Statues are shit anyway - even without the horrible connotations to the horrible people that many of them are fashioned after - they hardly ever look like what they’re meant to and the scale is all wrong.
    Granted, Dave is alright up close (though again could do with a bit of tlc) but other than that they’re actual shit. Removing the Ronnie and Jacko ones for the lols of course but even they’re made about bad people.
    If we’re going to have racist monuments scattered everywhere then I think we should use a bit more imagination in future.
  • Word. Let's get some more impressionist and interpretive stuff up on the plinths.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • Somewhere on my phone is a photo of a statue by a local artist that was unveiled in a park down the road from where I used to live. It's made of about 40 brightly coloured wheelbarrows stacked on top of each other with the resulting shape supposed to be a figure. Honestly it's fucking rubbish, hence why I took a photo, which unfortunately I now cannot find. 

    I like how old statues and monuments look, much more than contemporary stuff. Can't we just give them different heads or something?
  • davyK
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    It's a tricky one in some respects. Clearly that Colston statue needed addressing as it had been raised as an issue for years. Either its removal or the addition of something to explain its history was required. For some statues, movement to a museum is probably the most appropriate thing to do. But I don't see the point in repeating the mistake of replacing it with another statue. Some sort of abstract monument perhaps - maybe one devoted to the parties that the former occupant took advantage of?  It would be worth spending time considering what instead of rushing it and plonking some contemporary on-trend piece that becomes an eyesore in less than a decade.

    I doubt there's a historical building in the country that doesn't have links to imperial asset stripping or slavery because of the source of the capital raised to build it in the first place.  I don't think the removal of them makes much sense, or is even feasible. But again, some record , plaque or whatever could be displayed.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • Yeah you can leave the statues up and put a big old plaque on them to say that the guy made his money off the slave trade, the money his descendants still enjoy today, or just replace them with a statue of someone who has done work to help the community or is a celebrated local figure who doesn't have links to the slavee trade. It's really not hard.

    Buildings have a use, they can stay, no one is celebrating or remembering a building in the same way as a person. Even then, they could put a plaque on it as well I don't care. Maybe it would open peoples eyes if it turned out almost every historical building they were setting foot in was built on the back of some form of exploitation. Heck that might even advance the discussion for reparations a bit.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • Yossarian
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    The only issue with buildings is when they’re named after tossers, in which case you can simply rename them, no need to pull them down.

    Statues serve no purpose other than to honour or memorialise individuals. They can go if needs be.
  • How do y’all feel about street names? Similar problem there.
  • b0r1s
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    Bit miffed they got rid of Grope Cunt Alley
  • If its a person's name then yeah, change it.
    If it is something like Jamaica St I think it should remain as it can still be part of the narrative without being celebratory.
  • Cockburn Hill is a particular fave.  Don’t get the problem with that?
  • Little me grew up in a village called Middlestown.  Imagine my delight when one of our primary school teachers told us in a lesson that the village and the school had been called Sittlington in the fairly recent past and even that was a recent change from the actual original name of Shitlington.  We lol’ed so hard as she took us out to the front of the school and showed us the stone arch above the entrance where someone had hurriedly knocked out the ‘h’ and the stone smoothed off with a bit of white polyfiller.
  • Someone needs to make a statue of Jimmy Saville and Hitler high-fiving each other, and then erect it opposite Robert Jenrick's house.
  • No Tin, we shouldn't give in to his demands.
  • Yossarian
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    Personally speaking, street names don’t bother me so much, simply based on how many exist. Who googles a street name to find out who it’s named after?

    Having a building named after you feels like more of an honour.

    Certainly wouldn’t stand in the way of others if they felt differently.
  • Yossarian
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    Actually, I have googled my current street name to find out where it came from simply because it’s quite unusual, I’m not even sure if it’s English.

    I got nowhere with my efforts.
  • Yossarian wrote:
    Actually, I have googled my current street name to find out where it came from simply because it’s quite unusual, I’m not even sure if it’s English. I got nowhere with my efforts.


    Hcjnadsiougbhvosdiub Road was a printing error Yoss, but by the time it was installed, it would have been too expensive to replace.
  • GooberTheHat
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    Roujin wrote:
    Yeah you can leave the statues up and put a big old plaque on them to say that the guy made his money off the slave trade, the money his descendants still enjoy today, or just replace them with a statue of someone who has done work to help the community or is a celebrated local figure who doesn't have links to the slavee trade. It's really not hard.

    Buildings have a use, they can stay, no one is celebrating or remembering a building in the same way as a person. Even then, they could put a plaque on it as well I don't care. Maybe it would open peoples eyes if it turned out almost every historical building they were setting foot in was built on the back of some form of exploitation. Heck that might even advance the discussion for reparations a bit.

    Cynical old me thinks it's more likely to make people be more open to future exploitation because "that's what made Britain Great".
  • beano
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    It depends, we've a great educational resource in Liverpool dedicated to reinterpreting what the slavery empire left behind, the public face of it doesn't believe in tearing down anything, apart from a commemorative plaque to the confederacy errected this century.

    The slate project have been going out, around here, Bristol and other cities pasting the histories and involvement of agents who were against abolition.

    The fact that there's a vocal resistance means people will hear about the acts of "great" Britons on which they built their wealth and the shame it brings.
    "Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
    - BnB NMS review, PS4, PC
  • Covid19 riots in the Netherlands. Who would've thunk? The truth is q-anon has a lot of sway in the pvv(Wilders) and FvD (Baudet) rightwing electorate. The distrust towards government and anti vaxxer attitude is rampant amongst the blu collar working class. The Dutch government is kind of blindsided by all this, stuck in a "nah, this only happens in other countries" attitude.

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  • GooberTheHat
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    I've been saying for a long time that these conspiracy theorists aren't just comedic because of their absurdity, but that they are actually dangerous. It seems that that claim is being realised now. It's one of the reasons I get so annoyed when influential people have them on their platforms and don't hold them to account for the bullshit they spout.
  • My personal view on these statues is that they should remain but then they should be left exposed to whatever defacement and cleaning the public can be arsed to do themselves.

    Council shouldn’t clean up a slaver but if people want to do it then that’s okay but similarly it being graffitied should also be okay. Essentially the thing is a mirror to the society it’s in.

    I find it a little bit rich for them to be torn down - the niceness of a place now is almost certainly significantly in part down to the rot of the place then. I don’t think it’s right to tear down the reminder of the bad shit while enjoying the fruit of it.
  • @GooberTheHat
    Conspiracy theory in the 30's led to the holocaust and ww2 in Europe. Conspiracy theories led to Trump's Capitol siege in washington dc. Not gonna argue it's not dangerous. The conservative right wield it as a political tool but in the end they won't be able to control it.

    The riots are also proof Q-anon and Breitbart's strategy are working and effective on an international scale. Expanding the conservative sphere of influence is all that matters to them.
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  • GooberTheHat
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    You and I have been on the same page for a long time regarding this I think.

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