Funkstain wrote:

I agree again. I just don't believe any of the necessary things will happen in time. I also don't believe any decent nuclear options will be explored, and it's worth pointing out that the deal we've done with China will probably end up costing more per W than full on renewable expansion. I mean, we're fucked - the thread title is a truism - the only question is quite how fucked we are before our better natures prevail.

It depends how the climate systems respond. The real risk is fucking up deep ocean circulation around the antarctic continent due to fresh water melt. If that happens, sheer inertia could see the new mode be in place for millennia. And what will it take to reach that? Hopefully a lot more than 5 degrees, otherwise we are in balls deep. 

I suppose one way to look at it is thus: if we really have fucked it big time, and I'd say that its 50/50, then the natural correction will come about due to famine, resource crashes, war and eventual population collapse. Like any other microcosm of human civilisation.

If that comes to pass then the earth's climate systems should find a new normal in something like 10,000-20,000 years, and hopefully the various ecosystems we destroy will start to recover with new niches being filled by the progeny of rats, dogs, cats, sheep and cattle. 

The Permian extinction was recoverable, and life thrived after first being sent to the brink. Hopefully it won't be that bad since it won't be a long-term geological disaster over 200,000 years (russian vulcanism) responsible in the first place. A 10,000 year event (human civilisation) might not be as bad once the co2 concentrations and subsequent methane release returns to sensible levels.

Saw daffodils locally about a week or so ago. 

Just saw some cherry blossom on the way to work.

Warm winter, innit?

hylian_elf wrote:

Saw daffodils locally about a week or so ago.  Just saw some cherry blossom on the way to work. Warm winter, innit?

You should come to Wiltshire, it's been about -5 every morning this week.

Probably could go in a handful of threads.

http://www.rewildingbritain.org.uk/magazine/reforestation-in-norway-showing-what’s-possible-in-scotland-and-beyond

I would really love it if our politicians started taking this kind of thing seriously.  The wildlife we've lost to placate grouse shooters is fucking disgusting.

There are wild deer and horses. Possibly wild cows too.

The ponies are aren't they?

Cool. Probably not native initially but migrated during glaciation periods or low sea levels last or previous ice ages.

But should it be considered "native initially"?

Always read the small print, Goobs

Ah, you only just introduce unique as a qualifier.

The U.K. was physically part of Europe until about 8,000 years ago (according to a quick Google) so unless any animals have evolved on continental Europe since then, (northern) European native species are British native species and vice verse.

We hunted plenty to extinction too.

Wolves were all over the isles till the last was killed at the end of the 17th century in Scotland. Bears too though we saw to them much sooner. 

We've got a steadily growing wild boar population in the Kent countryside due to reintroduction. Just don't approach them like ever. Especially if you want dinner.

I've read far too much Moonbot to give a toss about the farmers' views.

Yossarian wrote:

I've read far too much Moonbot to give a toss about the farmers' views.

Farmers aren't always the best protectors of the environment, aye, (The destruction of hedgerows etc is something farmers are deeply responsible for, for example, and has certainly had a strong impact on local wildlife) but there's a fair few who are trying to do things differently and are getting shot down at every step by local councils and NIMBYs who are just trying to protect their ideal of the countryside, rather than making it a vibrant and viable place for people and animals alike to live.

Write them off at your peril - they know more about ecosystems and the environment than 99% of people here, I'd wager, and Moonbot has been wrong before. The good thing about him, though, is he's not afraid to hold his hands up and change his views when the evidence shows him another side.

But, then again, I'm probably biased here - I'm farm stock and I grew up surrounded by people who knew nothing about the countryside and who refused to allow change because it might spoil their view or smell funny.

Actual experiences go:

We had a lady who wanted us to tear down some phone masts because they were giving her headaches. We "turned them off" at her request and the headaches disappeared. They were on the whole time.

Our tenants all care about the environment, and we agreed. We came up with a plan to able to deal with waste in a clean, safe and renewable fashion in an unusued plot that no one could see. The plan was shot down and so, instead, lorrys now cart the same material all the way from us down to Southampton (I think) to get processed.

Many in the village bemoan the fact there is no vibrancy. My da' applied to build 2 new sets if houses in the village, the vast majority of which would have been affordable housing with preference given to young people trying to get on the housing ladder and people who worked in the nearby towns and villages. This was also shot down, as it would influence their house prices. In the meantime, many of these people travel out everyday to London etc for work and the village has all but died - our last shop has just bitten the dust.

Their plans for rejuvenating the local environment and business? Getting a government grant to run a wicker-basket making company. I shit you not.

But hey, that's all anecdotal. And its possible my hometown has a disproportionate number of selfish idiots. But I'd someone came to where we lived and thought that it was suffering environmentally and financially, they shouldn't point the finger at the farmers.

Goddamn. Wicker baskets are fucking pointless.