RedDave2 wrote:

@jonb - just to be clear, I'm criticising both. It's just corbyn is getting defended here.

I know, but the reason I'm only defending Corbyn at this point is that he hasn't done anything to criticise. There is literally no viable alternative available right now for him to support. A few other politicians tossing names into the air in no official capacity doesn't mean anything. Conversely, someone like Swinson rejecting this actual request for cross-party talks can be criticised.

TBH, I doubt this unity govt thing can work at all anyway, regardless of who's in charge, but the best chance is still with Corbyn - for example, will the SNP work with a Tory leader? - even if it ends up as a joint leadership of some kind.

Sunday Telegraph today is a practical gallows for the EU and Corbyn.  Sheesh.

The problem with the polemic around Brexit is that all points of view have a sliver of correctness. The skews are horrendous though.  It's like a mass mania.

There's also a book review of a work that covers the cabal that plotted to overthrow the Wilson government and their plan for putting Mountbatten in charge. Had heard of that plot but this book might be worth a read under the covers as a distraction if/when the balloon goes up.

Spycatcher by Peter Wright covered that era towards the end of the book. There was a hypothesis that Wilson was a Russian agent and there was some effort expended toward proving it.  I think the intention was to damage Wilson whether it was truthful or not.

Wright was advised at the time to distance himself from those intelligence efforts and the plot as the cabal was made up of a colourful collection of adventurers and fantasists.

This latest work claims the Queen had a word with Louis telling him to keep his distance.

Heh. Yeah - it seems it was part of the overthrow plot.

It was certainly a time of paranoia and the plotters were happy to take advantage.

JonB wrote:

TBH, I doubt this unity govt thing can work at all anyway, regardless of who's in charge, but the best chance is still with Corbyn - for example, will the SNP work with a Tory leader? - even if it ends up as a joint leadership of some kind.

Your probably right. I think I'm just hitting max frustration with all this. So apologies if I was coming across over combatative to anyone.

Are there any other viable options on this or is it all pretty much said and done? Am I right in thinking that a no confidence vote isn't enough to actually stop no deal. There needs to be someone in government who goes to the EU and asks for the extension to at least allow a GE.

Think so. The way I understand it is the default is we leave unless there is an invention.

JonB wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

There are a few different options, one of which is to pass a vote in the HoC which requires the government to request an extension of no deal has been made. The same thing happened to May, and it sounds like moves are being made towards it.

Some seem to be putting hopes in this, but I thought the EU had ruled out further extensions except for a GE or 2nd ref.

Yeah, theres effectively two parts. UK to request an extension and the also to show how it might help. If the current government were to remain then I can't see the EU agreeing to an extension because it really is just delaying the inevitable. If there was a different government in power along with that, then I could defo see an extension being granted.

Debating constitutional niceties is all very well but it's painfully obvious that Boris and his cronies are going to porogue parliament anyway.  MPs won't have a chance to vote down no deal because they'll be completely bypassed. I mean fuck, he's already labelled them all 'collaborators'. And you can see from his decision to completely ignore demands to cancel the Summer recess and recall parliament what contempt he has for the institution.

Yossarian wrote:

The EU are also concerned about being blamed for the fallout from no deal, so I expect there’ll be some flexibility there, especially as there will almost certainly be a GE soon, whether triggered by Johnson or a VONC.

I don't know if the above is true. I think the EU, like everyone else, has seen that it will be part of the no deal brexit narrative that it was the EUs fault that it happened. An extension doesn't solve that because it can just be cast aside on the basis that the EU won't get rid of the backstop so it's still their fault.

Without Johnson being out of government the EU won't be offering an extension. But if the UK did go for an election before times up, its still up to the current UK government to either ask for or at least accept the extension. That's not going to happen.

Can’t miss the summer garden party season. Come on.

Government doesn't have recess. Parliament does. It always takes it. MPs are burned out.

This country needs civics lessons. I know Dave's in Ireland but still.

At first I thought a recess to be ludicrous - but a break is needed.  Time to reflect or plot.

Seems like Labour is getting ready for the final move.
Good luck Corbyn!

Thing is. The pension bill is climbing.

Something has to be done.

I'm not backing what the idiot IDS is proposing but people need to realise that NHS and pensions with an aging population need to be paid for somehow.  It is a particularly thorny problem. One way is taxation but that's neither popular or in line with the Nasty party.

A meeting in the middle of working life and tax/private schemes will be a solution.

There was an awful lot of lavish public sector pension deals pre crash. Fund managers when the going was good didn't seem to think about saving for a rainy decade.  Well run schemes can work. I know people who retired far too early - an awful lot of experience walked out of our door with no budget to replace it. I suspect it's the case in many places.  I'm fortunate to be in a scheme that is still viable - I've been told it's worth an extra £20K on my current salary if I was to try and create such a fund now.

Young folk really need to bite the bullet and start thinking about a pension as soon as they start working. The earlier one starts the better and it needn't be a noticeable chunk out of take home.

I wouldn't want to be part of that gen to be honest - between that and mortgages it's a rough time to be joining the workforce.

I myself am worried about health care as I age. It's starting to feel like something out of Dickens. God help you if you are old and sick.  The system seems to be designed to remove any assets from the lower classes so that the next generation become serfs with no assets or capital. We are well on the way to that as it is.

As divisive a figure Thatcher was - one good thing she did was to create a generation of asset holders. It's unravelling already.

davyK wrote:

Thing is. The pension bill is climbing.

Something has to be done.

I'm not backing what the idiot IDS is proposing but people need to realise that NHS and pensions with an aging population need to be paid for somehow.  It is a particularly thorny problem. One way is taxation but that's neither popular or in line with the Nasty party.

A meeting in the middle of working life and tax/private schemes will be a solution.

There was an awful lot of lavish public sector pension deals pre crash. Fund managers when the going was good didn't seem to think about saving for a rainy decade.  Well run schemes can work. I know people who retired far too early - an awful lot of experience walked out of our door with no budget to replace it. I suspect it's the case in many places.

Young folk really need to bite the bullet and start thinking about a pension as soon as they start working. The earlier one starts the better and it needn't be a noticeable chunk our of take home.

I wouldn't want to be part of that gen to be honest - between that and mortgages it's a rough time to be joining the workforce.

I myself am worried about health care as I age. It's starting to feel like something out of Dickens. God help you if you are old and sick.

God help you indeed. The answer is to fund social care better, and to incentivise in family care.

Helping economies grow outside of certain conurbations is also a priority. The current economic realities splits families up.

A cap on social care, like the Tories proposed at the last general election, is also a fair solution - it redistributes wealth, in a sense, by ensuring that those sitting on a home worth a lot can get care against a lien on the home, capped at a fair amount. People hate it, but it is what must be done.

People fetishize their home, and passing it onto their kin. But if their kin won't take care of them, and they can't afford to pay for care, then that is the only workable solution.

I should add: step in to prevent rip off care home arrangements and tip old age only property developers