Funkstain wrote:

Fwiw I think may made it much worse when she got article 50 running before she’d even found any ducks to get into a row Johnson is a direct consequence of that hubris

Totally 
It’s easy to forget during this cluster fuck of a government just how shit may was as PM

She only cared about her public perception, never forget as home sec May was responsible for coming up with the strategy to create the hostile environment for immigration literally saying it out loud in a speech in 2012 and I quote:

"The aim is to create, here in Britain, a really hostile environment for illegal immigrants".

She was a shit home sec, a real mean spirited cunt in that position, and she can cry all she likes when she had to resign after not controlling the ERG and getting absolutely dumpstered by their stupid games, I will give not one single solitary molecule of sympathy to her.

Oh fuck no, no sympathy here. She's a terrible person.

It’s a shame we didn’t end up with Crab v Eagle at PMQs.

I don't listen to this podcast regularly but this ep was pretty good. Or pretty chilling depending on how you look at it. 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2020/dec/14/has-labour-lost-its-red-wall-forever

TLDL - Corbyn + Labour's Brexit plan went down like a sack of cold shit. No understanding from the central party machine of what was about to happen in the Red Wall. More pertinently, Covid handling has done the Tories no harm at all. Johnson still popular. Tells it like it is (which he doesn't). Starmer equivocates too much (which he does). One interviewee even parroted the Johnson attack of him being 'Captain Hindsight', sitting on the sidelines sniping. The fallout of Brexit might change things, and there's 4 years until the next election. But a Starmer v Johnson runoff, at this stage, doesn't seem like it would go well for Labour. 

In contrast, every time I go on Twitter, which is probably another demographic altogether, I see repeated attacks on Starmer that he follows the government line too much. Labour's electoral coalition just seems like it's in tatters now. You need a leader who can take middle-class Tory votes but also speaks directly for (not to, but for, as in directly representing them) these working-class communities. And Johnson is that man at the moment. They seem to see Starmer for what he is, and Johnson for what he isn't. The Tories would be nuts to get rid of him. He can fuck up as much as he likes, kill people with his negligence, but as long as he can work out a decent angle and a snappy soundbite, he gets away with it. 

Don't know what Starmer can do really. More plain speaking and sticking his neck out a bit. Apparently he's been biding his time on articulating his 'vision' for the country. But they're going to start doing that in speeches next year if things calm down a bit. I don't know what that's going to entail but it will probably be as thrilling as the keynote speech from the CEO of a multi-national company. I don't know if you can make any real progress until you start challenging people's assumptions that they've had pounded into them. And you can't do that in Leigh, travelling up for the day from your mansion in North London. You need a proper grassroots re-invention of the party.

I think you are right in saying its too early to predict an election.
We have been in bizzaro land since 2016. I very much doubt this current government's ability to hold the admiration of the public without the chaos of Brexit.

I think Starmer is aware that his term as leader of the opposition really starts next year.

I already know the responses I'm gong to get to the above: what else could he have done, it's sensible not to alienate the, *ahem*, "social conservatives" up north, he's gotta get dem middle class right wing fuckers etc it's so depressing

Funkstain wrote:

I already know the responses I'm gong to get to the above: what else could he have done, it's sensible not to alienate the, *ahem*, "social conservatives" up north, he's gotta get dem middle class right wing fuckers etc it's so depressing

He could have plugged the fucking merch, that's a lost sale there.

LivDiv wrote:

I imagine it is difficult to sit on one side of the fence or the other with Covid as the gov are all over the shop with it. Moving London to Tier 3 10 days before a 5 day national relaxation of rules for example. How do you take stance there without it being manipulated into looking like doing nothing by one group and moaning by the other? Brexit. Best to let the Tories own it now. Labour can't stop this runaway train. Criticise the deal and its "Labour wanted no deal", support the deal and get called a hypocrite later. Bohnson has a huge majority let him tie his own noose with it.

This is all right but equally Starmer needs to remember the words of George W Bush.

If you don't stand for anything, you don't stand for anything. 

monkey wrote:

You need a leader who can take middle-class Tory votes but also speaks directly for (not to, but for, as in directly representing them) these working-class communities.

Them pesky proles! We've moved past Blairism to an era where you have to set out your stall, rather than clinging to our historical split where most middle-class people vote and many working-class don't. Brexit has shown us how rarely the twain.

Keith's triangulation treats our voterbase as static, when he could afford to lose plenty in the middle if he appealed to the poorer masses (hello). But I think he'll lose his election and Clegg his way into a corpo shitshow after.

Win our working-class voters and you win an election; those are the numbers. Johnson was the wrong man, but his tactics were strong.

Well if children can't figure out how to feed themselves I'm not sure it's the government's place to step in. What sort of message does that send? Next people will be expecting the government to protect them from crime and provide sufficiently funded education.

Roujin wrote:

That's gonna be a "fuck tory scum" from me, dawg.

Should be your sig really at this point.

Dinostar77 wrote:

It really is a shit show by the tories. UNICEF is having to help feed UK children. I mean wtf?!?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-for-the-first-time-in-its-history-unicef-will-help-feed-kids-in-the-uk-12163515

UNICEF says it is the first time in its 70-year history that it has responded to a UK "domestic emergency".

Its amazing to think this isn't hurting BJ more. A quick look at the twitter shit hole and yes, plenty of people willing to pile on marcus Rushford instead for making a shout out for charities.

Yes... for charity work.

https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1338490087433236480?s=19

RedDave2 wrote:

Roujin wrote:

That's gonna be a "fuck tory scum" from me, dawg.

Should be your sig really at this point.

Dinostar77 wrote:

It really is a shit show by the tories. UNICEF is having to help feed UK children. I mean wtf?!?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-for-the-first-time-in-its-history-unicef-will-help-feed-kids-in-the-uk-12163515

UNICEF says it is the first time in its 70-year history that it has responded to a UK "domestic emergency".

Its amazing to think this isn't hurting BJ more. A quick look at the twitter shit hole and yes, plenty of people willing to pile on marcus Rushford instead for making a shout out for charities.

Yes... for charity work.

https://twitter.com/MarcusRashford/status/1338490087433236480?s=19

Football fans on social media can be kind of dim.

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 39% (-)
LAB: 38% (+2)
LDEM: 8% (-1)
GRN: 4% (-1)

via 
@Survation
, 22 Dec
Chgs. w/ 10 Dec


What the fuck is wrong with people?