If R. Kelly came from a culture that appreciated camp, he'd be as big a name as John Waters. Trapped in the Closet is genuine genius.

Facewon wrote:

"importance," timing, behaviour, relevance to the art all play a part. Kelly suffers, IMO, because of recency and because his crime was sex with a minor, and his music is ridiculously sexual and in the case of some tracks (song he wrote on love below for andre) treads an awkward line. (song is all about how age is irrelevant to love.)

I think this is a bullshit argument and hinges entirely on the feelings of the listener. Like if you are made to remember what crimes the individual is supposed to have committed, that's on you, not the singer. This is an argument that that arse who was interviewed in the Village Voice used. He said he could still listen to James Brown because he didn't remind him of his crimes. Huh? Let's have that again please. As long as someone doesn't trip that switch in your brain it's OK to beat and rape women. Rick James is okay because he had a great Dave Chappelle sketch. Well Rick James kidnapped, tortured and raped a woman. But because he occupies a funny space in your brain that's all okay?

I would argue that Kelly's output is overwhelmingly invested in 1) consent, 2) love and 3) the beauty and importance of music. You can name one or two dodgy songs but the overwhelming majority is in these three categories. I Like The Crotch on You is the exception, not the rule. The "it reminds me of bad stuff" argument is sloppy as all fucking hell. It prioritizes the sensitive feelings of the listener, not the victim or the culprit. It is lazy bullshit.

R. Kelly is the most important musician of his generation, regardless of genre. That just is. It's not up for debate and does not bend to the whims of the individual. That he is not respected as such is far more to do with a weird kind of genre snobbery and racism, than it is any crime he is alleged to have committed. I know you know this already as we've had this discussion before, but it's worth saying anyway.

Liveinadive wrote:

I find it funny that people excuse rock stars of the 70s by saying "It was a different time then" yet the age of consent has been 16 since 1885.

White artists get a much easier ride, I reckon.

I couldn't care less if R. Kelly was a member of the Third Reich. I just can't stand his music.

Kow wrote:

I couldn't care less if R. Kelly was a member of the Third Reich. I just can't stand his music.

I think I could turn you.

Diluted Dante wrote:

So you consider him a generation below Michael Jackson then?

Kelly started in '92, Michael started in '69.

Kow wrote:

I think it would annoy me more if a singer I liked turned out to be a Trump supporter than if he was a murderer.

Ha! Agreed.

XOMuggins wrote:

R. Kelly is the most important musician of his generation, regardless of genre. That just is. It's not up for debate and does not bend to the whims of the individual.

So this is a big call.

Alternatives for comparison and criteria please, so we can hash this out.

He's also awful. I Believe I can Fly is a mawkish horror of a song.

It's his best work.

Can be hard to separate the artist from the art once you learn something unsavoury about them. You can try and compartmentalise them but ultimately there has to be some influence. But it can depend on the subject under discussion.

Anyhow, shouldn't this be in the non-gaming zone?

Diluted Dante wrote:

It's his best work.

That would be a sad state of affairs.

I think R. Kelly's influential, I'm just not sure the whole narrative about Influential Pop Figures really matters any more.

Skerret wrote:

I can buy that nobody comes close in the genre or related genres, given I could not name a single track of his and bar a few exceptions don't listen to those genres. But still, Buzz Osborne, Yorke (or more Radiohead in general), Malkmus? Nick Cave maybe. Too broad a church for me to call it. I'd say Kurt Vile but every time I hear a song and think 'ooh this sounds influenced by Kurt Vile" it turns out to be Kurt Vile. I unno really. Interested in Face's thoughts, and Tempy's.

His impact on Rap alone - surely uncontested as THE genre of today - guarantees his status. If you look at what Kanye West has done, in softening and humanizing the genre, that all started with Kells. Kells was the one who first bridged the gap and said "Hey we can have sweet ass melody in a hard as fuck rap song."

I hate 90s R'n'B because I love the original 50s/60s rnb. It's an irrational, guttural hatred for me, along with my hatred of disco.