Other things I liked.
The opening space battle was fantastic, Kylo Ren's space bit was also great (ignoring floating Leia at the end).
Snoke getting offed was a surprise but welcome, peaces things really open.
BB-8 doing almost everything.
Evil BB-8.
Phasma actually fighting, I don't think that will be the end of her either.

I find Phasma to be an intriguing character who manages to be pretty cool without really doing anything...

It is almost like they don’t actually know what to do with her. Or are they playing some form of long game with her, intending her to have a larger role in the third film?

My only concern is that they are actively trying to create a new Boba Fett style character.

I think Phasma just exists in these films so they scan spin her off into some side stories...they're trying to engineer a new Boba Fett type cult figure they can then milk, without any real idea or plan on how she fits in these movies.

It is weird how divisive this movie is, in so many different ways.  Initially I was fairly sure the differences stemmed from what you thought of the Luke story, but that the rest of the movie would kind of play the same for everyone.  But it's like everyone has managed to find different bits they like or dislike, and their own rival with the opposite views.

MattyJ wrote:

I liked a bunch from the film but it was very uneven for me, tone all over the place. I didn't find the opening comedy phone call funny and so that put me on the back foot really.

Agreed.

As much as I disliked the whole casino section, I did wallow in the spectacle of the various races, the riff on cantina music and the introduction of new species. There was a lot going on in the casino to just gawp at, which has always been part of the appeal of sci-fi. That spectacle will have a similar visual impact on kids that the Mos Eisley cantina did for us.

I'm fine with the themes that the casino planet was about. Force for all and that, sure. It's just that the entire section was rubbish.

Acting Admiral Purple Hair would have avoided all of that by actually explaining the plan properly. But no, she knew Poe was a dickhead who does stupid shit and pushes him into doing some more stupid shit rather than contrasting his idiotic bombing run with escaping to the planet undetected and getting re-enforcements.

Ditto Asian girl magically breaking the laws of physics and crashing into Finn. On a second viewing it pissed me off. They show her driving back, the opposite way. So was Finn going at half the speed limit? How did she catch up to him?

Things like that underpin the entire film. The space battles made no sense. The space chase made no sense. It was all so utterly forced. I genuinely think only the acting /performances save this from.being no better than RoTS.

Is that the ray that shoots death star technology laser that
disintegrates the side of the vehicle? But what it does to the cockpit is slow it down some? That makes total sense! What a retard I was not to understand that dive!

No, he must go headlong yelling allahu Akbar. That's his arc, see. He starts off wanting to save Rey and himself and being a scaredy cat. Then he wants to play craps. But come the end he is willing to sacrifice himself pointlessly.

Amazing! This is what we killed off Han and Luke for, these idiots.

Don't get me started on bb8. It wouldn't have surprised me if one of the at-ats at the end merked all but kylo's walker, then at at finished him off with some casino slots.

Disgusting

The ray is charging up so isn't at full power yet, he was going head long into it because he needed a direct shot into the barrel of it at the right moment.
It's all in the film.

Diluted Dante wrote:

That also makes him more of a moron then. Go alongside it and turn in at the last minute.

To be fair, the point of that scene is that Finn's being a moron.  It's a film about morons learning not to be morons.  (Though I'd agree that it's an act of Prometheus level stupidity, and is really only being done like that to make it clear that he's ramming the cannon thing - because it was clearly felt that the audience were morons too.)

legaldinho wrote:

Err... Poe's arc made no sense at all. He started off moronic for no reason at all. His being moron felt forced, and him "learning" at the end - quoting holdo's facile spark phrase, was equally forced. By then they had lost so many of their junky vehicles, what was the point in turning back? Surely once you set off - and set off with no plan for air support btw, you've made the decision to go for a last ditch fight. But no, some time after setting off, and after losing half his vehicles, Poe's arc must be shown to have come to a close. I found it coarse, patronising, and annoying. Even more so on a second viewing

Poe doesn't start off moronic for no reason.  He starts off as the same crazy maverick flyboy that he was in Force Awakens.  (And that we've seen in a million other movies)  It's just that in the real world, crazy maverick flyboys doing their own thing because they think they know better are morons.  

As for what's the point in turning back - they set off expecting to get to the planet undetected, not as a last ditch attempt.  They're then also expecting the heavily fortified base to offer some protection, because they're unaware of the Order's magical ramming cannon thing.  The plan is to hold off until they can get help.  They run only once it's clear that they actually can't defend the base and that help isn't coming.  They then decide that having some of them survive is vastly preferable to suicide by First Order.  Poe and Finn both learn the lesson.  

I completely understand finding it coarse and patronising (and appreciate everything I've just written probably comes across the same way).  But I found it refreshing, rather than annoying.  I'm really bored of movies in which arrogant wankers save the world with the power of their enormous egos, and liked having a bloody great Blockbuster that suggested there might be a better way of doing things.  

Ignoring all the (many) plot holes and irritations, I kind of wonder whether people's reactions to the film ultimately come down to how they respond to that idea.  Though that might just be me.

Also, I've only seen it the once, and reserve the right to completely change my mind when I inevitably see it again...

The ray is charging up so isn't at full power yet, he was going head long into it because he needed a direct shot into the barrel of it at the right moment.
It's all in the film.

I get that he needs a direct shot into the barrel of it. You don't need to go through the powering up ray that is apparently slowing him down to do so. This is in fact an idiots plan.

He should angle in, or go alongside it (it won't move) then turn in so that he's only in the path of the ray for a brief time. This means he isn't taking damage, and gets there quicker leaving less chance for the thing to power up and destroy him before he destroys it.

Nah. I don't think it really matters which way Finn goes in a film - straight ahead, cut in, put his hazard lights on....he's trying to make a dramatic sacrifice to save his friends - I'll accept some dramatic license in a film.
What's stupid is his other friend crashing into him at high speed in decrepit old hover rockets to stop him doing that, where there's a very high chance of killing both of them, plus then not saving anybody.  That's not dramatic license, it's just stupidity and inconsistency that snaps you out of the moment.
Fair enough if she convinces Finn that it's better to live another day than be a gungho flyboy who wants to kill himself to try to save many....crashing into him by being a gungho flygirl seems to undermine the lesson.

I didn't like seeing bad Ade Edmondson though.

tin_robot wrote:

Diluted Dante wrote:

That also makes him more of a moron then. Go alongside it and turn in at the last minute.

To be fair, the point of that scene is that Finn's being a moron.  It's a film about morons learning not to be morons.  (Though I'd agree that it's an act of Prometheus level stupidity, and is really only being done like that to make it clear that he's ramming the cannon thing - because it was clearly felt that the audience were morons too.)

legaldinho wrote:

Err... Poe's arc made no sense at all. He started off moronic for no reason at all. His being moron felt forced, and him "learning" at the end - quoting holdo's facile spark phrase, was equally forced. By then they had lost so many of their junky vehicles, what was the point in turning back? Surely once you set off - and set off with no plan for air support btw, you've made the decision to go for a last ditch fight. But no, some time after setting off, and after losing half his vehicles, Poe's arc must be shown to have come to a close. I found it coarse, patronising, and annoying. Even more so on a second viewing

Poe doesn't start off moronic for no reason.  He starts off as the same crazy maverick flyboy that he was in Force Awakens.  (And that we've seen in a million other movies)  It's just that in the real world, crazy maverick flyboys doing their own thing because they think they know better are morons.  

As for what's the point in turning back - they set off expecting to get to the planet undetected, not as a last ditch attempt.  They're then also expecting the heavily fortified base to offer some protection, because they're unaware of the Order's magical ramming cannon thing.  The plan is to hold off until they can get help.  They run only once it's clear that they actually can't defend the base and that help isn't coming.  They then decide that having some of them survive is vastly preferable to suicide by First Order.  Poe and Finn both learn the lesson.  

I completely understand finding it coarse and patronising (and appreciate everything I've just written probably comes across the same way).  But I found it refreshing, rather than annoying.  I'm really bored of movies in which arrogant wankers save the world with the power of their enormous egos, and liked having a bloody great Blockbuster that suggested there might be a better way of doing things.  

Ignoring all the (many) plot holes and irritations, I kind of wonder whether people's reactions to the film ultimately come down to how they respond to that idea.  Though that might just be me.

Also, I've only seen it the once, and reserve the right to completely change my mind when I inevitably see it again...

I just don't know how you can say that makes sense. They set off expecting help to come? And two minutes later they figure no help is coming and turn around? I'm talking about Poe attacking the ram thing. How can anyone defend that sequence? It's utterly moronic. It makes no sense except to set up Poe for the forced, completely unsubtle "see now movie goers I have learned my lesson I have completed my arc."

Is this the high bar we are all delighted star wars is aiming for?

Shambles