Watched this last night. Came out thinking that I didn't know what to make if it. On reflection, I didn't really like it.

I've just watched the first minute or two and the video is obsessing over and going into the exact type of detail that the prequels did and everyone hated the exposition and trade deal talk - cant win.

People can rag on it but it's no Prometheus.

There's lots to agree with in that video. He also spends the first 5 minutes complaining about spaceship design which is a bit odd for star wars as they've always been fashion over function. Get past that bit and he starts making sense.

Aaroncupboard wrote:

Explains why Qui-Gon never had that, as he was killed before he could complete the training of Obi-Wan.

IIRC, Qui-Gon is the one who comes back to talk to Yoda about force-ghosting. Yoda mentions something to Obi-Wan after they agree to go into hiding about talking with an old friend and learning some new force shit.

He had a submerged X-Wing on that island. Why was that there? Just to tease us into thinking something good would happen. I know this is Star Wars fanboy rubbish but I was dying for a scene where he just lifts that X-Wing from the water like it's nothing.

monkey wrote:

Aaroncupboard wrote:

Can't get on with the "Luke needs to go out on an epic display of the force" stuff, pulling down a star destroyer, holding the door like fucking Hodor or knocking over the AT-AT walkers like a stack of dominoes would all have drew the same eye rolls from me. It's established that Kylo and Rey are stronger with the force than Luke anyway, so you'd then have to get even more ludicrous to one up that, it's turning into prequel level Star Wars then. Doing the force hologram was an epic use of the force in its own right, it just wasn't a flashy clapping fanboy pleaser, and it tied in with the "Saving the ones you love not fighting the ones you hate" theme. Saved his pals, killed no one, Jedi as fuck.

Completely with this. Don’t personally get the disappointment with Luke’s storyline/ending. He had a great arc where he went from disillusionment with the force (which I actually think they explained quite well) through to a huge and powerful use of it in a completely non-violent way. I loved how his final actions rescued his friends, humiliated the enemy and-I feel most importantly-inspired people. I also like how he faded away into the force (I assume that is what actually happens) like Obi-Wan and Yoda did. They had done what they needed to do and completed their role as a master Jedi. Explains why Qui-Gon never had that, as he was killed before he could complete the training of Obi-Wan.

I agree apart from the fading away at the end bit. The gf told me I tutted loudly when that happened but I didn't realise at the time. It would have worked if he'd just done the projection thing then lived. Or if his death was doing something really good. But just dying to buy the rebels a couple of minutes to escape from a cave that, as far as anyone knew, was inescapable, didn't seem like a satisfying sacrifice to me. But they wanted him dead at the end so that's that.

He didn’t just help his friends escape though, he established himself as a legend who’s story was being played out by those children.

He’s probably inspired a new generation.

optimark_prime wrote:

monkey wrote:

Aaroncupboard wrote:

Can't get on with the "Luke needs to go out on an epic display of the force" stuff, pulling down a star destroyer, holding the door like fucking Hodor or knocking over the AT-AT walkers like a stack of dominoes would all have drew the same eye rolls from me. It's established that Kylo and Rey are stronger with the force than Luke anyway, so you'd then have to get even more ludicrous to one up that, it's turning into prequel level Star Wars then. Doing the force hologram was an epic use of the force in its own right, it just wasn't a flashy clapping fanboy pleaser, and it tied in with the "Saving the ones you love not fighting the ones you hate" theme. Saved his pals, killed no one, Jedi as fuck.

Completely with this. Don’t personally get the disappointment with Luke’s storyline/ending. He had a great arc where he went from disillusionment with the force (which I actually think they explained quite well) through to a huge and powerful use of it in a completely non-violent way. I loved how his final actions rescued his friends, humiliated the enemy and-I feel most importantly-inspired people. I also like how he faded away into the force (I assume that is what actually happens) like Obi-Wan and Yoda did. They had done what they needed to do and completed their role as a master Jedi. Explains why Qui-Gon never had that, as he was killed before he could complete the training of Obi-Wan.

I agree apart from the fading away at the end bit. The gf told me I tutted loudly when that happened but I didn't realise at the time. It would have worked if he'd just done the projection thing then lived. Or if his death was doing something really good. But just dying to buy the rebels a couple of minutes to escape from a cave that, as far as anyone knew, was inescapable, didn't seem like a satisfying sacrifice to me. But they wanted him dead at the end so that's that.

He didn’t just help his friends escape though, he established himself as a legend who’s story was being played out by those children.

He’s probably inspired a new generation.

That’s a pretty weak link though. He could have done anything badass and self-sacrificing in the ending and been a legend (and that’s still just word of mouth from the 20 or so surviving rebels that now have to tell everyone in the Galaxy about it).

monkey wrote:

He had a submerged X-Wing on that island. Why was that there? Just to tease us into thinking something good would happen. I know this is Star Wars fanboy rubbish but I was dying for a scene where he just lifts that X-Wing from the water like it's nothing.

It's a clever shot, one of whose purposes is quite good (it should plant the seed of how Luke might have got to Crait once he appears.)

The other purpose is contrarian and misdirection. You are supposed to think Luke will train Rey and she will try to lift the ship.

Too clever by half, and anyway too much contrariness in this movie. It's contrarian to a fault. Think Luke will ignite the lightsaber? He throws it away. Think there will be flashy lightsaber duels in the movie? No lightsaber cross. Think Kylo will be redeemed? He becomes the main baddie. Think they'll kill off Carrie cos she's dead irl, makes sense right? She Mary Poppins her way back into the film, and is the only surviving member of the old guard (RLM have a lovely joke about that btw)

At some point, rigorously going the opposite way to how you think it's gonna go is just as grating as giving you everything you expect. TLJ has precisely the opposite and converse problem than TFA. But at least TFA made sense, one scene to the next. The only weird sequence in that movie was how Han magically appeared on the falcon. In TLJ it's all over the place.

I'm pretty sure Luke Skywalker was already an inspiring legend before this film.
you know, the well known name in the galaxy, the orphan kid who turned up, blew up the death star and eventually took down the empire, setting up the new republic.

"then what did he do grandad, tell me?  I wanna fight the evil new order just like Luke did"

"well, he turned his nephew into Kylo Ren, and went into hiding. once all the rebels were dead apart from the last 6, he did an astral projection trick to help them sneak out the back door, then died"

"oh..."

I didn’t watch for very long, because he’s an irritating presence but, for example, he suggests that people across the galaxy have not reacted to the First Order’s actions, and the TLJ fails to address this, when TLJ goes out of its way to point out that a bunch of people are really not happy, and need the guidance/courage/inspiration/leadership to feel they can do something about it.

I’m just fed up of the usual nonsense that comes up, particularly in response to anything in, for want of a better phrase, geek culture, and especially Star Wars, with people asking, “why didn’t we see this, why didn’t wee see that, why weren’t we shown this?” Because it wasn’t a film about that. Do you know why you mainly saw the reaction from people on Leia’s ship over everywhere else? Because that’s what the film is about. It’s about seeing the actions of a small group of people in a bigger picture scenario, and the clues for the bigger picture are there in the film, occasionally overtly pointed out, but not always. With the exception of portions of the unforgivably poor prequels (I really, really hope Disney make a sensible decision, wipe those travesties from the official canon and remake them in a manner that looks and feels like it’s part of the same franchise) these films have always been about what our leads are doing at the focal point of a galaxy wide fracas, with occasional glimpses of what’s going on elsewhere.

legaldinho wrote:

1.Empire strikes back 2.A New Hope 3. RotJ 4. TFA 5. TLJ 6 RotS 7.Phantom Menace 8. Clones

Perfect order imo.

4,5,6....7.......................................8,1,2 and 3

And I’m the one picking a fight. Righto.

pantyfire wrote:

The problem with Luke doing kerazy Jedi destroying 10 AT-ATs stuff is that the force then becomes a Deus ex machina.
After that happens once and from then on as a viewer you subconsciously sit there and think what's the point just get the force to kill everything at the end.
If you really think about it the most impressive thing we've seen the force do in movies up to this point is move an xwing.

I actually like the restraint with which they have approached the force. The prequel trilogy was kind of an arm's race, and having Luke smash that army would have been a short high at the expense of the long term narrative.

Still, it would have been an awesome finish if they had not... Killed him at the end for no reason whatever. If you kill him, let him smash those at-ats at least. Or push them back, a force push that Kylo resists with difficulty, and the at-ats slowly, forcibly walking back, a couple falling, maybe one fires and hits another... That would have been a feat worthy of Luke, and I could have understood that it took everything out of him.

Instead, well, he says see you around, leaves, is tired, then dies. It stunk of "killing the past" for its own sake. And for me, they didn't do the work you need to do to justify that. Rey went backwards in this movie in terms of progress. Only Poe has an arc and it is infuriatingly nonsensical. Everyone else is utterly uninteresting.

Maybe if they had done some work. Kylo and Rey collapsing after each remote exchange. Kylo got water on his hand from Ach-to, they showed that... Maybe show a nosebleed... Fucking Stranger Things gets this ffs...

Then I can complete the picture. Luke, from billions of miles away, projects himself. Everyone sees him. Maybe show he impacts the world instead of he leaves no footsteps behind even... Then show the strain after. But you can't have blood in star wars.

I'm guessing RJ compromised so much in this film that his trilogy is going to be more adult and grown up, it's his pay off for toeing the party line, killing the original cast, and setting up 9 without the baggage.