The Last Jedi & Episode 9 - Discussion and SPOILERS (that means stay out if you have not seen it) - The Bear and Badger

superflyninja

I never really saw it like that. The Jedi didnt hold exlcusive license on the force. For example in Rebels, see Bendu .

Tempy

I'm not saying they did wholesale. I am saying that they imposed exclusivity on it, like religions often impose exclusivity on the ideas of spirituality and belief. Even back to the guitar example - most people will need guidance in some form, but there are always people who just have the innate talent. These are both wonky allegories but in the end it's all bollocks anyway: Lucas's films contradict themselves, so does the canon and any non-mainline films.

WorKid

To be honest guys, I find your lack of faith in the force rather disturbing.

mannaboy

EvilRedEye wrote:

I don't think the concept of midichorlians is that bad but there's no way of introducing it in a family-oriented action film without it coming across as a tremendously awkward lore-dump.

Vader’s ‘the force is strong in this one’ was all that was needed to tell the viewers Luke was a powerful Jedi. Qui Gon could have said the same sort of line without any of the midichlorian nonsense.

jdanielp

EvilRedEye wrote:

Liveinadive wrote:

I was thinking about this the other day and how the prequels undermined the original trilogy there. Han, the Empire dude that Vader chokes among others treat Jedi/Sith like some long forgotten myth yet the Jedi had it's own council and giant training pyramid library only 30 years prior.

I'd say this is just down to inconsistency in ANH. Like you say, the Jedi are treated like a myth but it's also clear that they only fell a few decades ago.

Perhaps their schools don't teach history and/or the Galactic Empire removed all references to Jedi from the curriculum?

RedDave2

I always saw the mediclorin thing as over nerding things. Before it was introduced as said, the force is strong with this one sufficed and the audience bought it. Someone has a high mediclorin count? Nah, that's bollocks comes the audience reply.

superflyninja

They imposed exclusivity on their teachings sure, just saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.I never really cared much about that side of things.(Jedi being exlusionary scum that is). I saw them more as Simon Cowel types. "You either got it or ya don't"

[Deleted User]

Tempy wrote:

I'm not saying they did wholesale. I am saying that they imposed exclusivity on it, like religions often impose exclusivity on the ideas of spirituality and belief. Even back to the guitar example - most people will need guidance in some form, but there are always people who just have the innate talent. These are both wonky allegories but in the end it's all bollocks anyway: Lucas's films contradict themselves, so does the canon and any non-mainline films.

I think that's tosh. I have never seen star wars as being about the Skywalker bloodline. Conversely, I gave zero credit to TLJ for the broomboy and Rey is nobody shite. Those who thought it subverted expectations just don't get the films. Was Palpatine a Skywalker? Was Obi wan? Was Yoda? The Skywalker thing was done for family drama. There is a suggestion it can be genetic, but that is it.

Tempy

That's cool, I don't think it's tosh. That's the way i've always seen it, given how few forces users there are post Jedi order getting murdered. I didn't say anything about the Skywalkers either? I imagined people had force sensitivity but with it being a myth/not being encouraged openly due to the jedi never openly sharing their knowledge/empire lock down on users, it fell out of use. As you say, that's my gloss.

RedDave2

legaldinho wrote:

Tempy wrote:

I'm not saying they did wholesale. I am saying that they imposed exclusivity on it, like religions often impose exclusivity on the ideas of spirituality and belief. Even back to the guitar example - most people will need guidance in some form, but there are always people who just have the innate talent. These are both wonky allegories but in the end it's all bollocks anyway: Lucas's films contradict themselves, so does the canon and any non-mainline films.

I think that's tosh. I have never seen star wars as being about the Skywalker bloodline. Conversely, I gave zero credit to TLJ for the broomboy and Rey is nobody shite. Those who thought it subverted expectations just don't get the films. Was Palpatine a Skywalker? Was Obi wan? Was Yoda? The Skywalker thing was done for family drama. There is a suggestion it can be genetic, but that is it.

Are you both not just saying the same thing?

superflyninja

Tempy wrote:

That's cool, I don't think it's tosh. That's the way i've always seen it, given how few forces users there are post Jedi's getting murdered.

If I saw all the Jedi being murdered I'd not be in a rush to go showing off force powers either ;p

[Deleted User]

Tempy wrote:

That's cool, I don't think it's tosh. That's the way i've always seen it, given how few forces users there are post Jedi's getting murdered.

Answered your own question there. The jedi, who trained people to develop their skills, were no more.

I should say, my objection was to the DNA skyalker thing. I deffo agree that RJ is paving the way for people doing impressive TK stuff without training, which even Anakin didn't do. He just fixed robots and raced like a multilimbed alien aged 6.

superflyninja

I think it was JJ who did that. Rey learned to mind trick and summon a saber(beating Kylo at summoning I might add) herself

Tempy

I edited my message but I think we're saying the same thing anyway?

[Deleted User]

WorKid wrote:

I think of sensitive as an on/off thing. Some are stronger users but I don't think sensitive implies weak. Dunno. I'm only partial nerd in this area.

Nor do I. I think ‘sensitive’ would literally mean a range of people from those who can be influenced by the force and not realise it or oppose it, and those who can damn near read your mind, while it’s general use would imply those who are on the upper half of the scale.

Diluted Dante

RedDave2 wrote:

I always saw the mediclorin thing as over nerding things. Before it was introduced as said, the force is strong with this one sufficed and the audience bought it. Someone has a high mediclorin count? Nah, that's bollocks comes the audience reply.

It's because midachlorians are inconsistent with Star Wars. Star Wars is fantasy. What's the Force? Space magic.

EvilRedEye

I think it's easy to forget (because of the way the storyline was ultimately implemented) that the midichlorian thing isn't just about explaining how Force strength works, it sets up the immaculate conception storyline, which was intended to mirror the "I am your father" twist from ESB. In earlier drafts of ROTS, Palpatine is very open in declaring that he manipulated the midichlorians into producing Anakin - making him a kind of father to Anakin. It seems that Lucas was perhaps a bit wary about making this plot point too on the nose - the final draft we see on screen backs away from this quite substantially and leaves it merely implicit in the opera scene. To give Lucas some credit, the plotline of the sequels does seem fairly pre-planned in some respects and I think it's likely TPM was written with those future scenes in mind, even if they ended up being not very explicit.

poprock

Is there a general Star Wars thread, or are we just doing it all in here now?

Regardless, here is Disney’s official synopsis of the Han Solo film. It contains absolutely no surprise whatsoever.

Disney wrote:

Board the Millennium Falcon and journey to a galaxy far, far away in Solo: A Star Wars Story, an all-new adventure with the most beloved scoundrel in the galaxy. Through a series of daring escapades deep within a dark and dangerous criminal underworld, Han Solo meets his mighty future copilot Chewbacca and encounters the notorious gambler Lando Calrissian, in a journey that will set the course of one of the Star Wars saga’s most unlikely heroes.

[Deleted User]

I was wondering when somebody would post that.

EvilRedEye

Andy wrote:

I was wondering when somebody would post that.

Why? I posted it in here yesterday. In bold! Bold, I tell ya!!!

poprock

EvilRedEye wrote:

Andy wrote:

I was wondering when somebody would post that.

Why? I posted it in here yesterday. In bold! Bold, I tell ya!!!

Dammit. Ah well.

EvilRedEye

Well there was zero discussion about it so this is our second chance. Chewbacca eh? I'm not sure I remember seeing a Chewbacca in the Lego sets but I might be mis-remembering.

EDIT: I am mis-remembering, he's in the new Falcon set but nothing else.

jdanielp

EvilRedEye wrote:

Chewbacca eh?

No doubt we will see the establishment of his life debt to Han (assuming of course that it is still canon).

EvilRedEye

Yeah, the life debt is still canon - the novel Aftermath: Life Debt is even named after it.

EvilRedEye

oh god i'm like a walking encyclopedia of space wank nonsense why

[Deleted User]

The synopsis so far is fine.
I am ok with having the Chewie meet in, even winning the Falcon is fine.

The problem will be if they entire movie is just nods.

RedDave2

The best thing about the han solo film is surely the potential for more like this:

https://youtu.be/OfJRm0WssOE

jdanielp

EvilRedEye wrote:

oh god i'm like a walking encyclopedia of space wank nonsense why

So we don't have to be.

[Deleted User]

We've all seen this right?

WorKid

EvilRedEye wrote:

Well there was zero discussion about it so this is our second chance. Chewbacca eh? I'm not sure I remember seeing a Chewbacca in the Lego sets but I might be mis-remembering.

EDIT: I am mis-remembering, he's in the new Falcon set but nothing else.

I even posted a picture here. A PICTURE!

Howdy, Stranger!

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