The Next Next Gen Thread o/\o - The Bear and Badger

hunk

You pays extra for yer higher res, smoothy framerate and shinie gwafix.
Otherwise, same game.
Just like us pc pundits have known for aeons.

g.man

It doesn't matter who is behind it. The point, is that's what they're sticking on billboards and it helps neither console manufacturer.

hunk

It's a cross gen game and the ads are by cdpr.
They essentially don't care whether you play it on this gen or next gen. As long as you buy it and play it. And yeah fc is a boon.

Kernowgaz

To me, It states you can carry on playing on the new console.

g.man

hunk wrote:

You pays extra for yer higher res, smoothy framerate and shinie gwafix. Otherwise, same game. Just like us pc pundits have known for aeons.

I think you are missing the point here. We're talking about marketing a next generation experience to the masses, not a handful of pc geeks on a tiny corner of the internet. A game like CP2077 would be a huge system seller for the next gen, and here we are saying it basically runs fine on the machine you already own, but hey, it's also really good on the machine you don't own.
If people buy a game on the current gen, then they expect it to run really good on the machine they're buying it for, so it's a really half-arsed message.
Everyone is trying to hedge their bets at the moment, and all that's doing is creating a perception that there is no compelling reason to hurry into going next-gen.
Now I'm sure this will all change in the coming months, because Sony and MS have to show their hand eventually, but right now, the whole next gen roadshow is stuck in a ditch with a flat tyre.
July is going to be a huge deal for MS. This is the month where they have to pull back the curtain and actually sell their next gen offerings to the world, and give the masses a compelling reason to upgrade.

LivDiv

Is it not better for Sony and MS to have people transition into next gen later down the line when component parts are cheaper and they are making less of a loss, breaking even or perhaps even making a profit on hardware?

They make their money from game purchases (and the other stuff like DLC).

The argument is that there isnt a compelling reason for the masses to upgrade to next gen. That doesnt really matter if people are still buying games anyway.

b0r1s

Yeah I’d agree there isn’t one massive compelling reason (game wise) to upgrade. But I know, from personal experience now on PC, what a difference that SSD makes and how good RT can look. That can difficult to get across in any kind of demo footage. And I k ow some people have said they are happy for waiting 30 seconds or whatever for a level to load but I really don’t like it. Especially when it’s stuff like losing interiors, then you forget something go back outside and loads again, then back again. This kind of thing being a 1 second load is not really about time saved. It’s keeping me in the game, not picking up my phone and getting distracted.

acemuzzy

It's an issue if more people are going to the other next gen console though - that means that in two year's time, your rivals getting more game sales than you are.

mistercrayon

Compelling reasons are overrated. They’ve seen people eat PSPro, One X, every annual iPhone and Nintendo console variant sell. Just being better is enough.

LivDiv

acemuzzy wrote:

It's an issue if more people are going to the other next gen console though - that means that in two year's time, your rivals getting more game sales than you are.

Not really because the Series X offers a comparable option to the PS5.

EvilRedEye

I think the original Lockhart plan from rumours was to flank the PS5 by having a cheap one that was lower specced than the PS5 and an expensive one that was higher specced than the PS5 but then Sony fucked it by broadly matching the higher Xbox SKU.

hunk

g.man wrote:

You pays extra for yer higher res, smoothy framerate and shinie gwafix. Otherwise, same game. Just like us pc pundits have known for aeons.

I think you are missing the point here. We're talking about marketing a next generation experience to the masses, not a handful of pc geeks on a tiny corner of the internet. A game like CP2077 would be a huge system seller for the next gen, and here we are saying it basically runs fine on the machine you already own, but hey, it's also really good on the machine you don't own. If people buy a game on the current gen, then they expect it to run really good on the machine they're buying it for, so it's a really half-arsed message. Everyone is trying to hedge their bets at the moment, and all that's doing is creating a perception that there is no compelling reason to hurry into going next-gen. Now I'm sure this will all change in the coming months, because Sony and MS have to show their hand eventually, but right now, the whole next gen roadshow is stuck in a ditch with a flat tyre. July is going to be a huge deal for MS. This is the month where they have to pull back the curtain and actually sell their next gen offerings to the world, and give the masses a compelling reason to upgrade.

I do get it, there's no compelling reason to go for the hi end sku. Yet.
Unless you're really, really hardcore and want the forward combatible 4k rt ssd hi framerate shinies now. This has basically been the pc dx11/12 landscape for ages hence I'm still on a 9 yo geriatric laptop;-) (Upgrade due next year). The transition will evt happen and will mainly depend on core gamer adoption and exclusives.

Next console gen it's going to be less about the actual hw and all about the software platform and ecosystem(PSN/xboxlive). That's basically how they will cushion the transitional blow to next gen. Welcome to the beautiful world of the console walled garden.

hunk

Also, next gen adoption may be spurred on by pricing, subs and people who want to get up to speed with the next gen ssd standard. The transition will be slow and messy with multiple SKU's living side by side incl. the previous gen: PS4/PS4pro/PS5, XBox1S/1X, XBoxSS/SX.
This will likely be the new standard for bc support going from here.

g.man

This is quite interesting...

Dinostar77

mistercrayon wrote:

MattyJ wrote:

Isnt the one S 4K then? Don't know why they'd release a 1080p console these days

One S is 4k for BluRay not games.

One X is 4k for xbox one *games* but is unlikely to be 4k for Series X gameS (ie cross plat PS5 and Series X games).

I imagine if one S plays any games that were made for PS5 then itll be at 400p or some shit like that.

The S is digital only. Also apparently the same CPU as the X just detuned in certain ways i.e. bandwidth and other gubbins. Sounds abit pointless to me, the sony approach of a disc and discless ps5 makes more sense.

mistercrayon

Xbox one S does have a digital version but there’s also a Disc one that replaces the original Xbox One.

Microsoft want a £250 console because those things sell (I guess) but the One S won’t cut it. So they are going to start selling a One X level console as the worst one. That will be beefy enough to play PSV cross platform games For the lifetime of PSV/Series X but weedy enough to be cheap. And cheap enough to allow people to casually dump their One S so they can more quickly stop supporting it while appearing to not abandoned people straight away (which I think they see as being bad).

Syph79

It won’t be One X level, as the One X is capable of 4K output and puts out 6 teraflops from the gpu. The Lockhart spec is said to be a 4 teraflop gpu. I don’t know enough about these things, but people who do have said that’s the case.

It’s a step backwards in terms of gpu output, hence the view it will do 1080p only, but will be more powerful/faster in terms of cpu and ssd.

g.man

So it’s an upgrade that’s capable of outputting a quarter of the resolution of the Xbox I currently own? Take my money!

Verecocha

It’s all just rumours that have been swirling for ages. Wouldn’t be surprised it it was just a discless Series X. But if it is as described in some places it’s definitely not for me. Maybe something they just want Fifa/Fortnite/CoD players to buy as it’s a cheap way to keep up? You’d like to think they had some data suggesting a need for it after the mess they made of the data and Kinect last time.

I’ll wait to hear if any of it is real.

acemuzzy

g.man wrote:

So it’s an upgrade that’s capable of outputting a quarter of the resolution of the Xbox I currently own? Take my money!

Think it's safe to say you (and more generally, most of us here) are not the target audience. It's like Apple selling the SE after they sold the 11 and 11 Pro - they want to broaden people who'll but one of their phones, nobody's claiming it's an "upgrade".

g.man

People keep comparing consoles to iPhones, but I'm not remotely convinced it's a convincing analogy.

acemuzzy

What do you mean by "a convincing analogy"? I'm not trying to assume success of the phone model = success of the console modern or anything like that, or that they're direct equivalent tech. And I've got no idea if it's a good thing for MS to attempt or not. But (if the rumours are accurate) it seems a fairly close match in terms of going for a more mainstream / less top-end market, doesn't it?

poprock

Old man shouts at The Clod dot gif

g.man

I just don't believe they are comparable. Again, it really is Apples and oranges.

RedDave2

g.man wrote:

People keep comparing consoles to iPhones, but I'm not remotely convinced it's a convincing analogy.

It's not a perfect analogy but in nearly every other area of tech people choose what level of tech they want to spend their money on. Not everyone wants the most high spec hifi, phone, laptop or TV but they might want a good value model. Why not for consoles? If the ps5 and series x are hitting 500, there will be people who might look twice at a 250 euro console that improves on their current system without tearing a hole in the wallet.. The one x and ps4 Pro have already shown there is a space for a two tier system. A few people on here got the one x even knowing that the next gen was only a bit off.

I wouldn't be completely put off getting a series s at launch and then getting a series x later if the s is really low cost. I do think if the spec is below the one x they are making a mistake and losing the disk drive doesn't seem the absolute smartest to me (I don't think it's a good idea on the ps5 either fwiw) I love digital but I don't think near enough people are there yet.

afgavinstan

g.man wrote:

I just don't believe they are comparable. Again, it really is Apples and oranges.

Orange ain't about anymore they got replaced by T-Mobile who were then replaced by EE innit

No? Wait...

acemuzzy

I mean surely they're comparable at some level? If not, why not? I don't get why they're so different.

(I know this debate had happened before, but I'm not sure I properly engaged with it then. Happy to continue my ignorance of others are bored of it by now

)

Lord_Griff

Ok boomers.

g.man

yourfavouriteuncle

Perhaps it’s free when you take out your ultimate sub for the full fat Xbox Series X and all it’s subs? You put it in another room where MS definitely won’t be listening in to you this time or give it to, oh I don’t know, Timmy and Talulah who are just starting to take an interest in your games but there’s no way they’re putting the disgusting sticky fingers all over dads new toy so here have this, get them tied in now and then when Timmy and Talulah grow up a bit and get their own fucking money instead of always asking for more, more, more from dad then they’ll remember those lovely times upstairs, locked away from their friends and family with only happy, jolly, non shouty, Xbox to enjoy.

Basically then, and in short, Lockheart is MS doing Happy Meals.

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