Misogyny and other gender issues. - The Bear and Badger

Mod74

djchump wrote:

Mod74 wrote:

Perhaps they'd like to tell me why it makes it a better game for them then.

Why?

Because you suggested somebody who cares might be able to answer my question.

Why would they care what you think?

I'm not asking them to care what I think, I asked a question. One which if answered might help me understand why it's something they think is important.

Nobody has to answer it. Or has answered it.

djchump

Mod74 wrote:

djchump wrote:

Mod74 wrote:

Perhaps they'd like to tell me why it makes it a better game for them then.

Why?

Because you suggested somebody who cares might be able to answer my question.

Why would they care what you think?

I'm not asking them to care what I think, I asked a question. One which if answered might help me understand why it's something they think is important. Nobody has to answer it. Or has answered it.

Why do you care?

Little Franklin

I think games plots are often fairly one-dimensional, games aren't a great storytelling medium, and art in games is mostly visual not narrative, so of course the men are usually strong and the women pretty.

Tempy wrote:

Part of it is also being bored with typical stereotypes.

Very true. I always enjoy a film much more if it does things differently. I doubt the same goes for the mass audience though.

ChattinWithChet

I think games plots are often fairly one-dimensional, games aren't a great storytelling medium, and art in games is mostly visual not narrative, so of course the men are usually strong and the women pretty.

What the fuck are you on about?

regmcfly

Hello - here comes mrs reg -Â

To be honest, I can't think of any female characters in games that I have played. I tend to do more casual gaming - puzzles, platformers, point and clicks etc (although speaking of point and clicks, Elaine from the Monkey Island games is a pretty great character). I don't know if it's so much about relatability than representation e.g. a well written character that just so happens to be a woman. Because for 99% of games, the character tends to be a male, most male gamers don't think 'oh there's someone I relate to'. It's almost a given. When there is a relatable female character, it is almost as if it is acknowledgement that female gamers do exist, or not just gamers but women who aren't ciphers.

regmcfly

she's off back to clean the kitchen now lol

Mod74

Tempy wrote:

The problem is the majority of never mind

The majority of what?

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all?sort=desc&view=condensed

Apart from the glaringly obvious title at No1, how many of those games have even the ultra wooly definition of misogyny? I'll give you Resident Evil 4, and -at a stretch- the two fighters. And that's it.

ChattinWithChet

I don't know why you would care if folks would want diversity, if it doesn't matter who the lead character is, as it would not make a bit of difference to your experience.

Mod74

Thank you Mrs Reg.

Mod74

ChattinWithChet wrote:

I don't know why you would care if folks would want diversity, if it doesn't matter who the lead character is, as it would not make a bit of difference to your experience.

Diversity?

Wait, what?

Game aren't diverse?

Am I the only person not playing Conan every day of my life?

Little Franklin

Is there something specific we're trying to figure out here because it seems like people are just arguing for the sake of it.

ChattinWithChet

@Mod: You seem confused as to why one would actively want a character to be female, or gay, or black, or Mexican, or Asian or whatever. How does it benefit the individual? And so on. I'm asking you if it doesn't make a difference to your experience of a game, how it could affect you if someone else wanted a greater representation of gender, sexuality etc.?

djchump

Mod74 wrote:

Tempy wrote:

The problem is the majority of never mind

The majority of what? http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all?sort=desc&view=condensed

Wow, quite a list. Hardly any female characters.

djchump

Little Franklin wrote:

Is there something specific we're trying to figure out here because it seems like people are just arguing for the sake of it.

Mostly just the one person, natch ;-)

Tempy

djchump wrote:

Mod74 wrote:

Tempy wrote:

The problem is the majority of never mind

The majority of what? http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all?sort=desc&view=condensed

Wow, quite a list. Hardly any female characters.

Also I don't see why the top scoring games are the only ones we judge by. I picked up MGS2/3 and God of War 1/2/3, Halo/2/3, Batman AA/AC as four franchises that are pretty poor in their portrayal of Women and then you've got Mario, Zelda etc, all of which pretty much stem around 'save the princess'. A handful of the first 100 there, for sure. But then a lot of those are RTS games with no specific characters (although C&C does get females mixed up with pin ups) or Sports/Racing games, which are utterly gender neutral though I imagine primarily aimed at those petrol headed men who like cars. Obviously they're fine for women too, big up teh car games.Â

That doesn't stop stuff like X-Blades or Lollipop Chainsaw from being worthy of mention, just because they didn't score in the top 100. And why aren't their more games with women as leads in the top 100? Just because it doesn't objectify them it doesn't automatically mean they are fine. I wonder how many of those characters are white males?

Anyway, I don't like how it is. I'd rather it changed a little more.

Mod74

djchump wrote:

Mod74 wrote:

Tempy wrote:

The problem is the majority of never mind

The majority of what? http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all?sort=desc&view=condensed

Wow, quite a list. Hardly any female characters.

Hardly any stereotypes you mean, not so smartass.

Mod74

ChattinWithChet wrote:

@Mod: You seem confused as to why one would actively want a character to be female, or gay, or black, or Mexican, or Asian or whatever. How does it benefit the individual? And so on. I'm asking you if it doesn't make a difference to your experience of a game, how it could affect you if someone else wanted a greater representation of gender, sexuality etc.?

It doesn't affect me. I'm not the one asking for it.

Why are you asking for it?

Why is a gay mexican black woman a more interesting character?

Little Franklin

Because we've never seen one before.

Mod74

What if she works in McDonalds from 9-5 and pays her taxes on time?

Kow

It doesn't need to be a woman that has an opinion about gender representations. Plenty of games make me cringe or put me right off through gender stereotyping. I would certainly say it makes a difference; macho posturing and sexism can ruin a game for me. It doesn't have to always be a problem but when it's a consistent factor, it becomes annoying. I would say the same about any medium.

Little Franklin

Mod74 wrote:

What if she works in McDonalds from 9-5 and pays her taxes on time?

The McDonalds thing would be interesting, not sure about the taxes. The important thing is she takes time out to kill people.

Matt_82

@regmcfly

Does your missus have an account on here? Â We could do with some more female input. Â KRS, Nina and Davie's daughter seem to be all we've got.

Kow

Also Handsoblue.

And Skerret.

Elmlea

Matt_82 wrote:

@regmcfly Does your missus have an account on here? Â We could do with some more female input. Â KRS, Nina and Davie's daughter seem to be all we've got.

Way to ignore my wife. Â Hmph, there's your misogyny right there.

Kow

Knew I had forgotten someone.

Bollockoff

I always thought Nico Bellic was a good shout out to less stereotyped male characters. If you look at his character model he's not really a handsome bugger. Bless him. But he manages a basic level of charm and politeness in most of his dialogue with female characters. One of the reasons I liked him so much.

Tempy

And Silke.

Matt_82

Elmlea wrote:

Matt_82 wrote:

@regmcfly Does your missus have an account on here? Â We could do with some more female input. Â KRS, Nina and Davie's daughter seem to be all we've got.

Way to ignore my wife. Â Hmph, there's your misogyny right there.

I was going for the rule of three. Â I did know there were a few more.

Though I had forgotten about your wife. Â Sorry.

Brooks

You're still missing the primary purpose of videogames, to entertain. If you think they're a vehicle for furthering equality, or harmony, or world peace or whatever the fuck you're massively overestimating their place in society and the kinds of authors they attract because of that.

1984 is definitely a Message product and also highly entertaining.

Bollockoff

Your post exploded my eyeballs.

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