Misogyny and other gender issues. - The Bear and Badger

RedDave2

djchump wrote:

RedDave2 wrote:

I don't know, an article that is claiming to explain all these terrible people without some type of input from that side seems inherently flawed. You don't have to justify both sides to present their views. It might help to point out why one side is so flawed. I'd also be very curious how the generate gang perceive themselves. ...

One of the people interviewed/quoted was a reformed gamergater - Thom something or other iirc. Have a read of his POV, but it pretty much amounts to “I was a kid, fell into the echo chamber and it seemed to make sense, then I grew up a bit and used my head”.

Fair point so. I'd imagine a lot of the people who got into it would have similar stories - mostly ok people who got caught up in it.

Tempy

I know Laurie Penny was asking for people who had been down the rabbit hole and back to get into touch with her about how and why. I’d like to read her profiles of those people if it becomes an article.

djchump

RedDave2 wrote:

Fair point so. I'd imagine a lot of the people who got into it would have similar stories - mostly ok people who got caught up in it.

As with a lot of these things though, the deeper down the rabbit hole you get sucked, the less of an “ok person” you become.

Tempy

Maybe you’re just a bigot for not accepting their challenging views?

djchump

“The real people being persecuted are the people who want to do persecuting, because when they do it people call them bad names!”

Tempy

I’ve not read anything by anyone in the article but I have listened to it be talked about on the H3H3 podcast with Boogie, and everyone in the article seems unreasonable.

RedDave2

djchump wrote:

RedDave2 wrote:

Fair point so. I'd imagine a lot of the people who got into it would have similar stories - mostly ok people who got caught up in it.

As with a lot of these things though, the deeper down the rabbit hole you get sucked, the less of an “ok person” you become.

I suppose that's human nature. We seem to work so hard against working together even though it leads to the best results. As a species we sub divide ourselves by so many things - gender, politics, ideology, football club, skin tone, clothing - crazy what we could achieve if we weren't always screwing the other over.

Roujin

Tempy wrote:

I’ve not read anything by anyone in the article but I have listened to it be talked about on the H3H3 podcast with Boogie, and everyone in the article seems unreasonable.

RELEASING CONTROL ART RESTRICTION SYSTEMS THREE...TWO...ONE.

APPROVAL OF 'SITUATION A' RECOGNISED, COMMENCING THE CROMWELL INVOCATION.

ABILITY RESTRICTIONS LIFTED FOR LIMITED USE UNTIL THE ENEMY HAS BEEN RENDERED SILENT.

Tempy please, I'm trying to nap on a Sunday afternoon and this level of savagery is keeping me too turnt!

Yossarian

Penny on Peterson:

https://longreads.com/2018/07/12/petersons-complaint/

pantyfire

RedDave2 wrote:

djchump wrote:

RedDave2 wrote:

Fair point so. I'd imagine a lot of the people who got into it would have similar stories - mostly ok people who got caught up in it.

As with a lot of these things though, the deeper down the rabbit hole you get sucked, the less of an “ok person” you become.

I suppose that's human nature. We seem to work so hard against working together even though it leads to the best results. As a species we sub divide ourselves by so many things - gender, politics, ideology, football club, skin tone, clothing - crazy what we could achieve if we weren't always screwing the other over.

You see, I'm not so cynical. I think as a species we do tend to realise that working collectively is a good thing, everything we see around us or use on a daily basis would've been impossible if we didn't. Of course we fear the outsider and still divide ourselves in nations and subgroups but in general we aren't that bad.

Tempy

Pretty great video on Incels from ya gal Contra

Facewon

Of course you beat me to it.

Damn femiods.

Roujin

OMG I can't wait to watch, but can I just say that after getting their original subreddit r/incels shutdown, whoever came up with r/braincels is not getting paid enough wherever they are.

GooberTheHat

Oh god, I'm going to have to join this braincels group. How long before they ban me?

Roujin

It's not worth it, just leave them in their sad little world, some/many most likely have some form of social dysfunction at the root anyway so it's not like you're going to be doing the equivalent of punching nazis online.

It's just sad seeing how the internet has become a place for them to congregate and take the blame game to kerazy new levels.

hunk

Haha, genius!

Brooks

Tempy wrote:

Pretty great video on Incels from ya gal Contra

She's getting slick at this I have to say.

Skerret

Are there any women here today?

Nope, there's yer problem.

Brooks

There's a troubling statement up in there about shitty attention being preferable to absolutely no attention. I'm troubled by it.

mistercrayon

The early internet felt like the place where dorks could share their thoughts and felt known by people. But it’s just as alienating as shouting into the sea and hoping for a response (maybe a seagull will shit on you occasionally).

Everyone just wants to feel like they exist outside of their own mind but it needs more external energy output than loads of people really want to do. Additionally internet known ness is a giant attention Ponzi scheme which makes loads feel inadequate for arbitrary reasons but then smashes it back to at the person a lot by giving numerical feedback as to the relative amount no one gives a fuck.

Roujin

Brooks wrote:

There's a troubling statement up in there about shitty attention being preferable to absolutely no attention. I'm troubled by it.

That's not really the context the statement that was made in though, at least that's how it came out across to me. It seemed like it was pretty clear it was personal opinion based on the alternative of how the silence might feed back into the black pill outlook and how in those circumstances she would rather have the attention than not as that implied people might actually be interested in her on some level, even if that level was only wanting to bang her if she'd had the snip.

Edit: vid is well worth everyone's time though, one of the few takes on the subject that actually managed to look beyond the misogyny, the elliot rodgers and the appeal of the alt-right and tried to understand what was happening to create those outcomes. Big up Contra as usual.

Brooks

I don't mean she's being Problematic, was a more general unease about the human condition 201X. Crayon articulated it fine.

Roujin

No worries, I figured you didn't mean she specifically was being problematic, I was just saying that given the context I don't think it's a problematic statement.

I also don't think that Crayons second paragraph is something that relates to this issue particularly either tbh. These people have always existed in society, they aren't about being popular or accepted by society, so I don't think the analogy with wanting to be known by people or being harmed or in some way affected by the hi-score follows and likes chasing that can come from social media. People like the guys on reddit seem basically concerned with self validation being achieved by having an intimate relationship.

hunk

Incells, oh irony.

Middle class conservative kids subconsciously projecting all their angst, woes and prospects on looks (everything's genetic, just like iq! I saw it on a yt vid!). They're doomed, they'll never get a gf or get laid. Luckily for them they've missed an important aspect in their analysis: social skills.

Social skills can be developed and if adequate chances are girls will talk to you and even consider having sex with you. Better yet, social skills don't depend on genetics and if you're a healthy individual anyone can learn them. And I don't mean Peterson like alpha male social skills. Learn to accept, love and be yourself and if you open up to the right people they might just open up to you.

Such is life.

Roujin

Okay but watch the video because that's a huge generalisation.

hunk

Seen the vid and I mostly agree with her.
She's far more articulate than I am tho'.

Brooks

It'd all be hilarious if it wasn't dreadful. "Chadpreet" lol

Tempy

Chadpreet got a despairing laugh out of me too.

mistercrayon

I was chatting to my partner earlier and I was saying how the cult(ure) - as described - sounds so similar to the historically dogmatic explanations of natural phenomena.

When the orthodoxy was the sun moved round the earth the scientists of the time had to heap spirals upon spirals to the models of motion of the planets and moons to explain how sometimes things appear to move backwards compared to normal.

The number of caveats, exceptions (brown people can’t get sex except for the brown people who can get tonnes of sex, unnatractive people won’t get a partner unless they do for reasons of £££) is kind of eerily similar. Kind of ironic as I bet the majority are nu-dawk-atheists.

Tempy

I have a lot of sympathy or at least empathy for the kind of people getting caught up in this shit. The wrist comment one was wild, if you’ve ever met me you’ll know I am quite slight, my wrists in particular are pretty tiny too.

That there is someone out there who is worried about their wrist size in such specific defeatist ways is crazy, and the whole engine of loathing that constantly feeds itself with negativity is kind of incredible in how magnetic it is.

Truth is one of the first girls who was interested in me after school really liked my skinny wrists. Go figure.

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