Misogyny and other gender issues. - The Bear and Badger

Armitage_Shankburn

Minnesänger wrote:

Brooks wrote:

In conclusion it would seem to be past time to unplug fucking Twitter.

It would seem time for people to grow up and accept messiness. We’ve people here who will also pull the “anyone who thinks X, is a (bad group)” or “so you’re ok with (attack on group of people)” when refusing to straight out dogpile a person or group. It’s not just Twitter - people have become shit at debate and discussion.

It’s a mean and emotionally abusive way (and yes, I do mean abusive) of talking to someone. Agree with my opinion, or you are an asshole. Declare your side.

Yep

poprock

I don’t know why so many people blame Twitter for people being shitty. Yes, people are sometimes shitty on Twitter – that isn’t the platform’s fault, it’s people being dicks.

People are shitty to each other in pubs sometimes. You don’t hear people crying out for all pubs to be closed.

Minnesänger

poprock wrote:

I don’t know why so many people blame Twitter for people being shitty. Yes, people are sometimes shitty on Twitter – that isn’t the platform’s fault, it’s people being dicks. People are shitty to each other in pubs sometimes. You don’t hear people crying out for all pubs to be closed.

Pretty much what I said - this ain't a Twitter issue. It's a modern discourse issue. Twitter is just the delivery method and the speed and ease of access (notice me Senpai!) exacerbates this.

cockbeard

Anonymity helps facilitate cuntiness, twitter just an easy target as FB at least asks you to give a real name, as if that stops folk being bellends

Brooks

It's speed but also the likes shit + post brevity that annihilates nuance. Add blue-check shit for extra shit.

Minnesänger

Twitter is also, by virtue of the word limit, pretty much the perfect deliver method for HOT TAKES. Deliver an opinion and deliver it quickly. Over the world limit? Split the post or delete the nuance.

I don't know if that reflects how bad people are today people are at debate, or whether that influences the way they express themselves, but i've certainly noticed a rise in conversational shit-baggery since the rise of Twitter. Including here.

Minnesänger

Brooks wrote:

It's speed but also the likes shit + post brevity that annihilates nuance. Add blue-check shit for extra shit.

Yup, this basically.

poprock

Minnesänger wrote:

… i've certainly noticed a rise in conversational shit-baggery since the rise of Twitter. Including here.

I don’t think correlation equals causation, if you know what I mean.

You could just as easily say ‘since the rise of Tinder’ or ‘since the rise of Instagram’. Insert whatever social media scapegoat you like. I think it’d still just be a scapegoat. One element in the general drift of society.

Diluted Dante

Since the Tories return to power.

mistercrayon

Minnesänger wrote:

poprock wrote:

I don’t know why so many people blame Twitter for people being shitty. Yes, people are sometimes shitty on Twitter – that isn’t the platform’s fault, it’s people being dicks. People are shitty to each other in pubs sometimes. You don’t hear people crying out for all pubs to be closed.

Pretty much what I said - this ain't a Twitter issue. It's a modern discourse issue. Twitter is just the delivery method and the speed and ease of access (notice me Senpai!) exacerbates this.

Also volume, anonymity and its previous ability to get “results” or mob justice. All bundled with the fact that people can feel righteous and real without getting off their ass.

It’s a very potent combination that makes people feel in and powerful where as telling someone something stupid at the pub rarely has anywhere near the competencies.

poprock

Giving everyone a voice reveals that lots of people are a bit shit. Shocker. News at eleven.

mistercrayon

It’s not really giving everyone a real voice though - does everyone’s actual opinion come through? How do so many people have the same memefiyable opinion on things?

Really it’s probably far fewer voices being glommed onto because of who they are rather than what they are saying. People have created a few gods and then try to get their recognition through aping.

poprock

Y’see, that’s the take I can’t get my head around.

It’s like we’re looking at totally different websites. I guess that’s because we are – your Twitter feed is the people you follow. There aren’t any ‘gods’ on my Twitter feed, or people with the same memefiable opinion on things.

When I look at Twitter, it’s a lot like coming in here.

Tempy

poprock wrote:

your Twitter feed is the people you follow.

That's not quiiite accurate given the way the platform works with people Retweeting popular people. Say you don't want to see Tweets by a certain BlueTick. You gotta block them, or block everyone that retweets them, or block everyone that screenshots them, or everyone that talks about them. Maintaining some kind of personal control over your incoming feed is difficult, especially if you want to keep abreast of stuff, or you don't want to totally seal yourself in an ironcast echochamber.

At some point the maintenance becomes too much, and then if you're on Discord or here, or Facebook, you're getting people linking to tweets by people. I Blocked Star Wars on twitter cos I got sick of hearing about it for a while, but twitter is still full of fucking Star Wars because I didn't mute very word related to it, or all the acronyms, or directors, or actors, or new films, or aarrrgh

This is ignoring all the fluff that twitter just throws your way in adverts and tweets your pals liked (how I am supposed to fave Camgirl pics for later if it's going to throw it all at my pals? Fuck sake internet!)

regmcfly

You can have a really interesting time going through and removing what Twitter "thinks" you want to see in your settings.

Diluted Dante

poprock wrote:

There aren’t any ‘gods’ on my Twitter feed

Not true, you follow me.

Tempy

regmcfly wrote:

You can have a really interesting time going through and removing what Twitter "thinks" you want to see in your settings.

Yeah I keep meaning to do that.

But like any social media platform, it's not really as pure as "it is who your follow" or I wouldn't be forever hearing about Piers Morgan and Toby Young and Katy Hopkins and JK Rowling and all the other people I don't really want to see baleful opinions from. The machine favours the way they act. Gods, demons, whatever. They get more time and space than others.

regmcfly

Turns out I'm really into wrestling.

Diluted Dante

regmcfly wrote:

You can have a really interesting time going through and removing what Twitter "thinks" you want to see in your settings.

I think I got this from gav:

suggest_who_to_follow
Forever
suggest_recycled_tweet
Forever
suggest_recap
Forever
suggest_ranked_timeline_tweet
Forever
suggest_pyle_tweet
Forever
suggest_activity_tweet_inline
Forever
suggest_activity
Forever
suggest_activity_tweet
Forever
suggest_recycled_tweet_inline
Forever

poprock

Tempy wrote:

… it's not really as pure as "it is who your follow" or I wouldn't be forever hearing about Piers Morgan and Toby Young and Katy Hopkins and JK Rowling and all the other people I don't really want to see baleful opinions from. The machine favours the way they act. Gods, demons, whatever. They get more time and space than others.

I get that we all have different experiences, but I still disagree with you on this. I don’t see stuff from ‘celebrities’ like those. And I haven’t tried particularly hard to control any settings or whatever. I’ve just been on Twitter a really long time and tend to only follow relatively decent people. Even those I’ve learned are massive fucking tories aren’t retweeting toxic nonsense or faddy memes.

It really is just who you follow, multiplied by who those people follow, with a dash of algorithmically generated advertising on top (which is also determined by your own online habits).

You can call that an echo chamber if you like, but I’m not obligated to widen my net. It’s something I look at for entertainment and conversation.

Tempy

I would suggest given what I hear from others is that your experience is probably somewhat atypical, and at the very least not how it is supposed to function.

poprock

Or maybe it is how it’s supposed to function, but the majority are doing it wrong?

Spoiler:

Tempy

Haha. I just can't agree that twitter is some meagre algorithm that is dictated by the people you follow, when it actively forces junk in your feed that aren't based on anything but what their info trends tell you people want to see.

mistercrayon

It’s worth bearing in mind it’s not simply who you follow but how you came across them. That is part of the equation.

And if it weren’t the case that small numbers of people can get huge influence on Twitter (or now instagram) then we wouldn’t have one of the kardashians becoming a billionaire before 30.

poprock

I have never had it do that to me.

Things in my feed:

Tweets from people I follow,
Things retweeted by people I follow,
Adverts (promoted tweets),
Things people I follow have replied to (this is a relatively new addition and I’d rather it didn’t happen),
Things ‘liked’ by people I follow (again, a recent addition and I admit it’s quite annoying).

And that’s it. Nothing I can legitimately call junk forced into my feed, nothing based on trends.

poprock

mistercrayon wrote:

… small numbers of people can get huge influence on Twitter (or now instagram) …

They get huge influence (audience) by having huge numbers of people follow them.

People click the follow button. Or the subscribe button. Or whatever the button is on each social channel. People choose to follow the Kardashians, or Trump, or Piers fucking Morgan.

In general, we all have to eventually accept that this is popular culture. Those of us lamenting the amount of trash opinions out there are in the minority.

regmcfly

Do you get me and gav being old firm arseholes

LivDiv

I can see both sides of it.
Regularly on this forum and particularly ITT I wonder how people come across such human garbage and why they continue to expose themselves to it. I mean the obsession with Graham Lineham I find especially perplexing, just ignore the cunt.

On the otherside I would use Pop's argument to defend Instagram. Im not blind to the app's issues of course but the curation of people I have on there (friends, designers, artists, comedians) makes it a place that brings me a lot of joy and inspiration. Rarely does anything slip through the net that I don't want to consume.

poprock

regmcfly wrote:

Do you get me and gav being old firm arseholes

I have this week. Had time on yer hands, aye?

poprock

LivDiv wrote:

On the otherside I would use Pop's argument to defend Instagram. Im not blind to the app's issues of course but the curation of people I have on there (friends, designers, artists, comedians) makes it a place that brings me a lot of joy and inspiration. Rarely does anything slip through the net that I don't want to consume.

Aye, I don’t see any selfies on my Insta feed, I can tell you that.

--

Anyway, massive digression for the Miso thread. Sorry guys.

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