Misogyny and other gender issues.
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Please read what face posted, with particular attention to the evidence in reducing harm. The evidence has been ignored.
I'm not going to labour for you further gonz. The celebration of this ruling is harmful. It's wrong."Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
- BnB NMS review, PS4, PC -
Apologies for the snipe (only read the last post and couldn't resist) @gozo: there's no (yet?) no one in their right mind would ever (voluntarily) propagate the species with you.
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beano wrote:Please read what face posted, with particular attention to the evidence in reducing harm. The evidence has been ignored.
There are citations. I suggest you study them. Allies and trans people and professional health and social care people have social media
Grow up.
"Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
- BnB NMS review, PS4, PC -
I mean using technicalities of a case that doesn't cover the actual wider implications. It's pretty gross celebration
"Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
- BnB NMS review, PS4, PC -
@gonzo: Trufax, that was an idealistic post. Tbf, I guess if you just make enough money someone will procreate with you, regardless. Sadly there'll be a lot more abominations like yourself; it's just the unfortunate way of the world.
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I think I had better withdraw from the thread - will delete my posts, they seem to have hurt people I like on this forum. I'll chase the fns on Face's post, and if I change my mind I will acknowledge.
Not you indigo, I don't know who you are or why you hate me so, but there you go.Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms -
Hmm... If it counts, I think that your view isn't wrong in the context given, but is rather narrow, Gonz. A judgment based on evidence provided, with weak evidence provided by Tavistock at that, has potential to do damage.
What I take from this is that the treatment pathway has some improving to do on screening, perhaps, but what else can be expected from a service that doesn't have an awful lot of funding (I assume, seeing as there's only one clinic in the whole UK). To me, it feels a bit baby out with the bathwater. I don't know if the actual treatment pathway is a legal matter, but obviously it is when things go wrong. No one hears cases on when things go right. -
Armitage_Shankburn wrote:I think I had better withdraw from the thread - will delete my posts, they seem to have hurt people I like on this forum. I'll chase the fns on Face's post, and if I change my mind I will acknowledge. Not you indigo, I don't know who you are or why you hate me so, but there you go.
Don't hate you gonzo, wouldn't give that space to you... in my soul
.
It's just bants tbf, you're actually one of the few posters left on here that I sometimes find funny....esp when provoked *hint*, *hint*. -
There are wonderful stories of people having a lifetime of transitions.
When these aren't framed as "re-transistioning" by press and GC people and we go to the people and communities involved in the individual cases we see how their experiences have been at times poorly communicated. Dare I say weaponised.
Because of the language we've employed both politically, legally, economically, and ideologically around decades old debates where typical people dictate to non-typical people their choices we find the non-typical people are emerging with a stronger more rigid and complex language which further proves their necessities and freedoms to self determination and autonomy. We see this when we test transhumanism against xenofeminism. But that's another story."Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
- BnB NMS review, PS4, PC -
RedDave2 wrote:I don't understand how gender is both a social construct and yet people can feel born on the wrong body
This is why I think they/them's doomed to a degree of failure: because what started as opt-out pronouns are now — from the desire to form a support network around them — showing roots that can grow into a replacement social construct. Unlike he/she they're still amorphous where it matters, but I wonder what happens when theys number in the tens of millions and myriad dickheads are linked by association.
I doubt many of us identify as he/him re: LADSLADSLADS, but we're stuck with it and realise the two aren't in lockstep. So identifying as they/them to reject gender doesn't imply supra-gender association with all theys. But rising from that desire for a sense of belonging, I do think they/them has obvious potential to form its own social construct that adopts many of the unwanted elements of ours, and feel it should strive to remain constructless in its projection. Else it falls into the same trap as he/she in frequently misrepresenting even those of us who are comfortable with those terms.
I've even typed this tautologically over two paras! Hopefully one of those is clear enough in repping my thoughts. Right now I'm thinking about This Is England's ‘brown gentleman’ scene, and how the weaponisation of demarcatory language will play a big, unfortunate role in the years to come. -
I like being a bloke because it's fun to complicate and confound the expression by just existing. -
Always thought "they", "them", implies some sort of hive mind... which, in actuality, it most probably does.
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They/them. And they/she. And they/he. Already exist in much higher numbers than you are fearing mate
The ultimate doom is the persistence of neurotypical and western supremacy ... I mean fortunately we are a clever bunch, the human race, though we've a great capacity for fear.
I'm personally reminded of subjugation of women the past 400 years. The texts The Invention of Women. And The Elegant Deity of Wealth, Power and Feminity explain where you're coming from escape."Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
- BnB NMS review, PS4, PC -
"Reject gender" is the wrong end of the stick. Enby is a gender. Bizarre"Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
- BnB NMS review, PS4, PC -
They/them.is a no brainer and it's just a question of fossils like.me.and Griff adapting.
I've had a read in the bath. I will say this: I'm prepared to accept that the outcome of the judgment could be bad for trans kids.
1) Tin's post gave me cause to doubt my uncritical view of the judgment. It's the point about delay in actual cases he's overseen
2) face's linked post, one citation I read, does seem to corroborate what Tin says. By and large, carefully, professionally questioned gender identity holds up, affirming care is good for them, and it is the delay that is the issue.
And I can see that this judgment will only lead to more delay.
Donkeys years ago, wimborne on twitter linked to a fundraiser for a 27 yo trans woman, who sadly had begun to lose her hair because she transitioned late, couldn't get what she needs on NHS, and needed funds to go to Portugal. I happily donated. I can see that lateness and delay only causes hurt.
So pretty much on this basis, I'm persuaded that the outcome of the judgement could be bad (ie results in more bad choices).
Of course, this does not mean the judgement is legally or logically wrong. The judges decide the case on evidence adduced to them. And the issue of stats being traced should be taken up.
But what I'll say is, if this is appealed as I expect it will, I hope the decision is reversed - based on what I read here and that paper
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15532739.2019.1652129
(Holds up, as far as I can see, on Google scholar)
I have changed my mind..
Thanks old bean for the push.. apologies to those I have upset.
But please do bear with people who disagree with you. It's not always from a bad place. I was posting in good faith. And remember, you need to make alliances with ppl you disagree with in life, or we'll all end up in a bad place.
Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms -
Lord_Griff wrote:Always thought "they", "them", implies some sort of hive mind... which, in actuality, it most probably does.
It doesn't state anything beyond a rejection of assigned gender, but we're never far from a Four Lions Barry on either side.
GurtTractor wrote:
I like this phrase a lot.Escape wrote:demarcatory language
The necessity of exclusive groups to feel inclusivity has long been a hallmark of UK shittiness.
As a working-class left-behind, Corbyn's Labour was so refreshing in crystallising what I was asking for. Whereas now I'm just back to sniping at righties, antagonistic for its own sake from my hurt feelings. -
Can someone explain the personalisation of pronouns please because that seems an oxymoron. They are generally substitutes for nouns but if they are personalised dont they become kinda nouns anyway.
I'm being a bit simplistic here but taking the example of Elliot page, he made a point about his preferred pronouns. (And on a personal basis if someone tells me they prefer a particular pronouns i don't think there's a big problem there) But if everyone has preffered pronouns and we can have any of the huge range that's out there, doesn't it make the pronouns redundant?SFV - reddave360 -
I don't like any gender neutral pronouns. Apparently other languages have good ones, but English certainly does not.
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FWIW Gonz I don’t think you being critical of stuff and admitting your biases is an issue, at all.
I brought up the long period of time it takes for this stuff to happen, because you see it a lot, but i’m not Tin with his first hand experience, or Face with his voracious reading and incredible use of that pocket app for citations. I’m just some pleb, who reads a bunch of shite online, which I am happy to accept. We all need pushing into uncomfortable places now and then, I appreciate that you do that. -
Apols if I didn't credit you with that point Tempu, it's just that I skim read a lot, plus the way Tim put it was quite arresting.Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms
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indigoDos wrote:Armitage_Shankburn wrote:I think I had better withdraw from the thread - will delete my posts, they seem to have hurt people I like on this forum. I'll chase the fns on Face's post, and if I change my mind I will acknowledge. Not you indigo, I don't know who you are or why you hate me so, but there you go.
Don't hate you gonzo, wouldn't give that space to you... in my soul.
It's just bants tbf, you're actually one of the few posters left on here that I sometimes find funny....esp when provoked *hint*, *hint*.
Well, if that wasn't hate, I'd hate to be hated by you.
Spoiler:Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms -
Armitage_Shankburn wrote:Apols if I didn't credit you with that point Tempu, it's just that I skim read a lot, plus the way Tim put it was quite arresting.
Not looking for credit more explaining why I understand why you’d not, I’d read Tin over me too in fairness
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@gonz Yeah didn't know that; it's not exceptional tho, nearly everyone experiences a bad break up at some point + why is the covid thing such a deal, I thought you were relatively young, do you have underlying health issues?
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Diluted Dante wrote:I don't like any gender neutral pronouns. Apparently other languages have good ones, but English certainly does not.
Diluting the meaning of he/she's a better option than alternative defs, no? Long-term, I mean.
Because the grammatically compatible ze fell out of usage quite soon, the migration to they/them carries the perception of poking the bear. The vast majority aren't trying to be confrontational, and the bear's obviously a dick, but the outcome's a guaranteed increase in conflict.
I suppose I'm always spoiling for a bit of a fight re: poverty, so what's theoretically the most positive approach gives way. Again, recent Labour gave us dispossessed some hope of unity. I could point to a largely peaceful movement and say I belonged to it, instead of my emotions getting the better of me in rants at twatters or whatever.
It felt like we were making progress in the post-lad newman era, too, but maybe regressive machismo was always there and it's just found a larger platform. -
Ze is one of the dogshit ones, unless you happen to identify as an 'Allo 'Allo character.
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indigoDos wrote:@gonz Yeah didn't know that; it's not exceptional tho, nearly everyone experiences a bad break up at some point + why is the covid thing such a deal, I thought you were relatively young, do you have underlying health issues?
I'm.a fattie again..but mostly, I took covid very seriously and just didn't leave the flat. Have fallen off the wagon now mind.
Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms
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