Misogyny and other gender issues.
  • regmcfly
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    I don't think there's anything bad about this.
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    WHY DO I KEEP GETTING PAGE FUCKING TURNS
  • We all have days like that, Reg. It’s just your turn.
  • regmcfly
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    Every fucking time
  • Lord_Griff wrote:
    Most probably sounds the death knell for traditional male female interaction. It does contradict the idea of immutable equality amongst genders, which is so overtly pushed for.

    It's almost 6pm so I have to get home.

    Funnily enough, pre-covid, a female friend told me in a club that women are fed up of online dating and SM and want to chat to people in bars and clubs. Pretty sure she wouldn't push back against talk of street approaches and so on, I guess her point is she has gone to a venue where she is looking for a certain kind of interaction, presumably still a hard no to creeps etc.

    I'm beginning to suspect that human beings are quite complex creatures.
    Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms
  • Long post incoming, discussion may have moved on.
    Spoiler:

  • Sexual offence bit Drew, totally. The equality thing, there are plenty of nut bag propents of removing any biological differences and or subscribe to the blank slate hypothesis, but this is a digression, and I wouldn't want that type of thought disturbing this thread.
  • Last season of Curb just about nails this topic, no I member it.
    Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms
  • regmcfly
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    DrewMerson wrote:
    Lord_Griff wrote:
    Most probably sounds the death knell for traditional male female interaction.
    ’Traditional’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that statement. My two comments would be that a) I don’t think it’s a death knell for men initiating contact with women, and b) just because some men are only now finding out that certain methods are unwelcome, it doesn’t mean that those methods are only now becoming unwelcome.

    Lord_Griff wrote:
    It does contradict the idea of immutable equality amongst genders, which is so overtly pushed for.
    I’m sorry, but I only ever hear the notion of immutable equality raised by people who are trying to find faults with the imposition of equal rights. Any person of any gender has equal value to any other person of any other gender. They should have equal rights. But that is not to say they are immutably equal.

    By way of an example, take the Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009. Unlike older legislation (and I believe some existing English legislation) the 2009 act generally makes no comment regarding the sex or gender of the perpetrator or the victim. It refers to person a and person b. Even the Section 1 offence, rape, which relates to the insertion of a penis, specifically includes surgically constructed penises (and surgically constructed vaginas, if that is the orifice which is penetrated) but specifically does not attach a gender to the owners of said body parts. People are given equal protection and are held equally to account by the legislation, regardless of their sex or gender.

    The reality, though, is that there is rarely any need to prosecute women using the legislation, because women generally don’t commit sexual offences. It is men who commit sexual offences.

    Question which is quite important for our job, just to clear up.

    As we know it, a woman who is intoxicated *cannot* under the letter of the law have said to have given proper consent.

    Whist I know there is a lot of finangling about that in real life situation, is that still the case? We have been speaking to our young men in school about it and trying to drum that into their heads.
  • I think Reg mentioned something really interesting earlier, about his student who clearly knew doing x was wrong, but didn't know that x was what he was doing. This is probably a thing to make explicit. What do you mean by harassment? What do you mean by sexual assault? How do I tell if my attention is unwanted?

    Thanks for weighing in Blue.

    This is one of the main points I/we have been asked to look at for the upcoming public campaign. Most offenders don’t think they’re the bad guys. They don’t realise that what they’re doing is wrong. That they’re crossing the line. And that, ultimately, is the fault of our entire society – for blurring the lines over and over again. How do you flip that mental switch for men who need help flipping it?

    Take an example from recent news. Alex Salmond’s hearing. He is a prime example of a man who doesn’t believe the things he did – throughout his entire career – were wrong. He doesn’t think that putting his hands on the legs, arses and even in one alleged case the throat of a woman in his employ was sexual assault (or plain assault, in that last case). He just can’t see it. How do we make him realise?
  • I've been reading and pondering throughout the day on this.
    I think this sums up my feelings though.

    Screenshot-20210311-215305-Instagram.jpg
  • Escape
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    Roujin wrote:
    Otherwise I am extremely repellent to women, they can like smell my beta hormones or something.

    Newman.gif
  • A couple years ago I was walking from my car to the gym, from the gym car park. Less than a 100m walk. It was dark. There was a woman who was walking a few paces in front of me, she must have walked past my car, anyway I didn't want to rush past her, as it might have looked like I was going to attack her? So I kept my distance, then she suddenly starts running and runs into the sports centre in which my gym was located. I couldn't do anything. If I'd shouted after her as she was running away I would have felt like this:



    Anyway the whole incident was kind of sad, really.
  • People on twitter now filling their little nappies because #curfewformen is trending, you love to see it. Amazing that people getting mad about the concept that maybe men shouldn't be out late at night can't understand that's what women have basically been doing forever.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • Fucking hell indeed.
  • b0r1s
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    What the actual fuck? Is this the norm? Is this what people are like in the street to women?
  • Sheesh.  That’s grim.
  • I know we should be weary of labelling or belittling mental health issues but that’s someone with a mental health issue of some kind, it has to be.
    That doesn’t make it any less scary for her of course.
    Live= sgt pantyfire    PSN= pantyfire
  • I presume a lot of guardian writers and columnists are on some kind of alt right hit list too?  Probably get dealt a lump of shit from time to time just because...
  • You’d have to go some to recognise a guardian writer in a bobble hat and a COVID mask.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • Gurno hacks deserve some kind of censure for their output but not that.
  • pantyfire wrote:
    I know we should be weary of labelling or belittling mental health issues but that’s someone with a mental health issue of some kind, it has to be.

    As someone with quite a bit of experience of people with mental health problems, I’d disagree, even given your disclaimer.  I’ve also met plenty of pointlessly aggressive arseholes in my time, and most of them were just that.  They’re not ill, they’re just people - and we need to start facing up to that difficult reality.

    One thing that I find interesting on a personal level is the focus on how women feel threatened.  Purely because it has left me wondering whether I’m the only man who is also terrified of his fellow men.  There’s lots of stuff about women putting their keys between their fingers, avoiding walking in certain areas, crossing the road if someone’s coming the other way etc and, well, that’s all stuff I do.  (And have done for a long time.)

    My reasons for that are, I guess, based on experience too.  (I’ve been physically assaulted by strangers a few times, shouted at, spat on etc.  Weirdly I’ve also been sexually assaulted by men on 3 separate occasions, but on 2 of those the idiots had mistaken me for a woman, so...)

    I don’t know, maybe I am the only man who worries about this stuff.  Or maybe loads of us do, but we don’t talk about it, because it’s considered the preserve of women?  Which in itself reinforces the whole problem.

    To me the rhetoric seems focussed on the vulnerability of women, rather than the dangerousness of men.  A lot of the discussion still fits the pre-determined gender roles that somehow got us here.  I’ve seen countless articles about how men can help make women feel safe, which seem to fall back on the notion of men as protectors. I’ve seen very little about the factors that lead men to be aggressive insecure arseholes in the first place, and even fewer about what we might actually do about it.  (I appreciate that ignores a whole raft of issues that are explicitly related to men as sexual predators, but I feel like addressing the first problem would likely go some way to addressing the second.)
  • GooberTheHat
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    Your not the only one tin. The keys in the hand, or looking for escape routes is something I do too. I don't trust guys at night in quite places.
  • Escape
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    How did the no-gos we're all accustomed to become so; yeah. Lots of politics there, though, making it a separate thing still. Any connection between dispossessed men and hostility doesn't come into this dire treatment of women.

    It's like a Dead Man's Shoes erasing of morality, where you can see the evil without knowing how it'll manifest. I avoid bad places and anywhere busy at night, but I sometimes wonder what'd happen to me if I couldn't — if I had to live in that environment. (I know someone who left a council house to live in a caravan, feeling it was safer for his kids.)
  • I do that too. Not as much as I used to, but still. I just don’t think it’s something I have much right to talk about. My personal safety issues are nothing compared to those faced by women and I don’t want to jump in (like a typical man, etc etc) with ‘oh yeah, me too’ when it’s not the same at all.

    But yeah, not just you Tin. Far from it.
  • Straying from the conversation here, but I saw this tonight and it’s fucking strong. Friend of a friend, so I’m a little biased. But still.

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