The Rings of Power: The Thread - The Bear and Badger

Paul the sparky

Agree with the elves lacking a certain ethereal quality. But looking back I don't think all of them had that, for me Legolas and the other bloke didn't have it. It may be more to do with the rings of power than them bring elves. I dunno

Raiziel

Personally, I think if you double down on the ethereal qualities of the elves, then they aren’t going to be relatable over their extensive roles in a TV series. It’s fine to pull that that off in a film where they have smaller roles, but over a larger time frame audiences need characters they can relate and sympathise with.

Raiziel

Galadriel already comes off as pretty icy in my opinion.

RamSteelwood

It feels like they've made the Elves a bit more human, i guess cos the drama seems focused on them so makes sense to have more struggle. In lotr the Elves are almost 'above' human concerns and fears...legolas skips over snow and doesn't really feel cold, they're not afraid of ghosts or things that scare humans.
In this galadriel feels more comparable to aragorn than an elf...i feel like if legolas was stuck on a raft in a storm he'd just balance on a beam and come out the other side dry.
But i don't really mean this as a criticism as it prob makes sense for the narrative to work

RamSteelwood

Or what Raiz said quicker and shorter!

EvilRedEye

Isn't the more ethereal nature of the Elves in LOTR down to their different role in the narrative? In LOTR, the Elves are in decline and the story is more focused on the Hobbits and humans. In the Silmarillion era, the Elves are like the main guys. You can't be all like "woo, look how special and ethereal these guys are" with the main guys.

Knight

They’re a bit rubbish right now mind. What’s that guy doing getting caught in the tunnels? If they’re the power of middle earth why were they so much more boss in LOTR? Would never have happened to Legolas.

Paul the sparky

I think you have to if they're supposed to be ethereal and special? I know what you're saying about doing it the whole length of the show, but maybe keep it to when humans come across them for the first time?

I'm mainly thinking about the raft and Galadriel disguising herself (although not for very long) as a human by putting her hair over her pointy ears. Just feels to me like she'd be more instantly striking than that, even when fished out of the sea

tin_robot

Raiziel wrote:

But there are an awful lot of folks out there who are determined to hate this show for some really unsavoury reasons.

I've had a long and largely pointless exchange with someone who started with a "Lenny Henry, what were they thinking?" post on Facebook, which has gradually unravelled into a slow painful expose of their underlying racism. Lots of "if it hadn't been for their woke agenda in the casting then we could actually talk about the plot and the performances", as if his issue with the colour of Lenny Henry's skin is entirely the fault of some TV Exec at Amazon. It then span off predictably into "what about the black elf?" with a bit of "next they'll have the first gay elf kiss". (Apparently elves having entire relationships with a totally different species is cool, but kissing one of the same sex is not.)

As a way of unpacking someone's previously well concealed racism it was eye opening, but otherwise just depressing. I suppose the only other observation I'd make is that he seemed genuinely angry that the show had placed him in a position where he had to come to terms with his own racism. As such his disgust ultimately wasn't really aimed at Lenny Henry, perhaps not even at Amazon, but rather at himself.

Paul the sparky

Lenny Henry is usually excruciating but he's spot on in this. Accent is confusing but not too distracting

superflyninja

Raiziel wrote:

And Im not a fan of Galadriel, go on throw your neckbeard, incel, racist, sexist comments at me.

I’m going to assume this little beauty was particularly aimed at me. My comment wasn’t aimed at everyone. You spelled out your grievances in a thoughtful, reasoned fashion, which I respect. But there are an awful lot of folks out there who are determined to hate this show for some really unsavoury reasons.

Nooooo not at you. I was aiming that at some of the news Im seeing where some people are thinking the lockdown of user ratings etc is all based on sexism or racism and not valid criticisms of the show! I probably should have had a /s at the end.

Just regarding the ethereal elves, I do think it was meant for them to be elevated above humans, the elves were immortal and practically superheros. Legolas could see super far, was very strong and super dextrous. Like was mentioned, he left no tracks in snow. But he looked elvish and Im sure had he needed to be, he could be presented in a very ethereal manner.
Im not sure of his ethnicity, but the black elf is actually far more elf-like than Elrond for example. Its that fucking haircut that Elrond and the geography teacher have. I am ever so slightly disappointed that the lady dwarves have no beards too.

RamSteelwood

EvilRedEye wrote:

Isn't the more ethereal nature of the Elves in LOTR down to their different role in the narrative? In LOTR, the Elves are in decline and the story is more focused on the Hobbits and humans. In the Silmarillion era, the Elves are like the main guys. You can't be all like "woo, look how special and ethereal these guys are" with the main guys.

That's what i meant. Galadriel wouldn't be very interesting in this if she was aloof and unaffected physically or emotionally with what's going on.

Raiziel

superflyninja wrote:

Raiziel wrote:

And Im not a fan of Galadriel, go on throw your neckbeard, incel, racist, sexist comments at me.

I’m going to assume this little beauty was particularly aimed at me. My comment wasn’t aimed at everyone. You spelled out your grievances in a thoughtful, reasoned fashion, which I respect. But there are an awful lot of folks out there who are determined to hate this show for some really unsavoury reasons.

Nooooo not at you. I was aiming that at some of the news Im seeing where some people are thinking the lockdown of user ratings etc is all based on sexism or racism and not valid criticisms of the show! I probably should have had a /s at the end.

Please accept my apologies, then, ninja. I made a comment above with regards to the incel/racist reaction to the show, and so jumped to conclusions. Sorry, old bean.

Raiziel

tin_robot wrote:

Raiziel wrote:

But there are an awful lot of folks out there who are determined to hate this show for some really unsavoury reasons.

I've had a long and largely pointless exchange with someone who started with a "Lenny Henry, what were they thinking?" post on Facebook, which has gradually unravelled into a slow painful expose of their underlying racism. Lots of "if it hadn't been for their woke agenda in the casting then we could actually talk about the plot and the performances", as if his issue with the colour of Lenny Henry's skin is entirely the fault of some TV Exec at Amazon. It then span off predictably into "what about the black elf?" with a bit of "next they'll have the first gay elf kiss". (Apparently elves having entire relationships with a totally different species is cool, but kissing one of the same sex is not.)

As a way of unpacking someone's previously well concealed racism it was eye opening, but otherwise just depressing. I suppose the only other observation I'd make is that he seemed genuinely angry that the show had placed him in a position where he had to come to terms with his own racism. As such his disgust ultimately wasn't really aimed at Lenny Henry, perhaps not even at Amazon, but rather at himself.

It’s very depressing, tin. This show seems to have exposed a lot of latent racism and sexism. I was a part of a few Tolkien communities that, with the advent of this show, are now utterly toxic.

hunk

It's the (far-)right/conservative bs culture wars against woke leftism.
It's complete and utter toxic nonsense but hey, as long as the 'movement' keeps the new generation from voting progressive left.

superflyninja

Raiziel wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

Raiziel wrote:

And Im not a fan of Galadriel, go on throw your neckbeard, incel, racist, sexist comments at me.

I’m going to assume this little beauty was particularly aimed at me. My comment wasn’t aimed at everyone. You spelled out your grievances in a thoughtful, reasoned fashion, which I respect. But there are an awful lot of folks out there who are determined to hate this show for some really unsavoury reasons.

Nooooo not at you. I was aiming that at some of the news Im seeing where some people are thinking the lockdown of user ratings etc is all based on sexism or racism and not valid criticisms of the show! I probably should have had a /s at the end.

Please accept my apologies, then, ninja. I made a comment above with regards to the incel/racist reaction to the show, and so jumped to conclusions. Sorry, old bean.

No apology necessary sport!
Despite my reservations Im looking forward to tomorrow's episode.

Spoiler:

Raiziel

Not spoilering because speculation, but my money’s on meteor man not being Gandalf. It’s possibly one of the blue wizards. I don’t even like that speculation to be honest.

The wizards are Maiar. They’re angelic beings sent to Middle-earth by the Valar from Valinor to assist elves and men against Sauron. I always expected the Maiar to arrive on boats, simply because, at this point in the time line, Valinor is part of Arda (the whole world).

Knight

Ok another very good episode. It’s good this.

Raiziel

I enjoyed it too. Totally invested now. Hurry up next Friday!

superflyninja

Yeah that was great. Numenor looked incredible

Armitage_Shankburn

Superflyninja is deffo gamergate miso adjacent tho, isn't that a forum fact? Not quite brave enough to own the antibrown, antiwomen stuff but it's there.

I think this show is pretty shit, emphasis on pretty

Paul the sparky

Quality stuff. I'm loving it

ZMM

I see Amazon are deflecting criticisms of the plot, pacing and characterisation as "omg you're a racist if you don't like this!"

ZMM

I don't know why they made Disa look like Mini-Me. For me the best performances, acting-wise, have been Arondir and Galadriel. I was watching the Galadriel scenes with hearts in my eyes she is gorgeous!

"Throw me a frickin' orc bone here."

Knight

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

Superflyninja is deffo gamergate miso adjacent tho, isn't that a forum fact? Not quite brave enough to own the antibrown, antiwomen stuff but it's there.

I think this show is pretty shit, emphasis on pretty

Sadly turns out you’re, in fact, the racist Gonz.

ZMM wrote:

I see Amazon are deflecting criticisms of the plot, pacing and characterisation as "omg you're a racist if you don't like this!"

hylian_elf

What an episode that was!

Raiziel

hylian_elf wrote:

What an episode that was!

Isn’t Númenor just beautifully realised?

hylian_elf

Yes! Gorgeous and very well realised indeed.

Pacing was even better than previous episodes.

What a cliffhanger to leave it on. I was just waiting and waiting for camera to focus…

hylian_elf

Always great when familiar names crop up and are introduced. Love the feeling “oh yay it’s so and so”. I like the actor who plays Elendil.

Raiziel

hylian_elf wrote:

Always great when familiar names drop up and are introduced. Love the feeling “oh yay it’s so and so”. I like the actor who plays Elendil.

Yup, Elendil actor is excellent. And yeah, it’s a proper geekfest delight to hear names popping up from the Legendarium. Really enjoying Arondir’s story arc too. But I missed the Elrond+dwarves arc in this ep. The eps just aren’t long enough!

Howdy, Stranger!

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