Super Street Fighter 4: Cross-up Tatsu Wake-up Ultra edition. - The Bear and Badger

Escape

Speed's a tough one - actual versus reactive. What I said about Tekken equally applies to high-level IVplay (not apologising, Brooks), but it's even less online-friendly in 2D. Daigo and Momochi's Stunfest final was loaded with one-frame footsies; their game was arguably very fast indeed.

Animation-wise, though, it crawls next to 3S. Jumps are forty-something frames instead of thirty-something. Sub-40s would've suited me, and Viper would've flourished. Abel, Blanka, Ken... so many characters'd love an engine that made it harder to defend against intelligent raggo.

I really appreciate Daigo, Momochi and others' mastery of IV's limitations, but not the style of play that the game affords them. When people talk about how relatively clueless most of us were in Vanilla, I know for sure that I preferred its damage output, and I moaned about its lack of pace from the off. Sure, we view games differently over time, but so many initial feelings - regardless of balance and whatnot, is it simply a joy to control? - are set in stone.

The Kombats are clunky as hell, and as much as they appeal to me in numerous ways, I can't get past that. With Street Fighters, it's largely down to speed. Slow moves with crush properties are a ticket to the worst of online play. So many times I've pressed buttons when the other guy wasn't doing anything on my screen...

Although it goes against logic, heavy lag always seems worse to me in slow games whenever one player's dominating. The taunting starts.

(I find it so much easier to remain patient in games where a major whiff can cost half a bar. I just can't get on with these slowass, cumulative-damage patience-testers. My own fault.)

Cherry_Pez

Probably need to get on Xrd Scapo. Had some great lobby times with Smang and Rouj this week (now not in Australia behind 19 frames of lag). The changes to the system really do encourage experimentation (feels a lot like Tekkers for that) and the pace is intense but doesn't feel outrageous (certainly feels slower than +R).

These individual V triggers they're touting in V actually kinda interest me, although if Ryu can just parry physical hits like 3S I can't see how that won't be more useful than Nash's Soul Absorb or Bison's Soul Reflect. But at least Focus in all its ghastliness is gone. Just wish it didn't look so meh, backgrounds are still embarassing compared other fighters (London stage characters look gash) and the fighter models now have this weird texture quality where they look like highly detailed PVC figurines come to life. Uncanny summat.

Still, rumours on FB today saying Cammy (meh) and Birdie (yes please) are to be announced next. See how it pans out anyway, not totally turned off after alpha counters and a move away from the more homogeneous vibes of IV.

Brooks

Cherry_Pez wrote:

PVC figurines come to life

4 looked like this too, and it's got no better.

I like the idea of the buff system that builds on 3S's PAs.

Smang

it feels like sf5 and tekken are moving towards each other in terms of art direction, wonder why that could be...

hopefully the animation and speed for sf5 get tweaked. flogging a dead horse but everything i've seen looks clunky. its the only word. i like my fgs responsive, though not necessarily fast.

it all looks a bit netherealms to me at the moment

Escape

Cammy and Birdie, so no Dudley? Nor, I suspect, Oro. They'd be too strong in this engine unless they were nerfed to the arse-end of nowhere.

Q's a good fit.

Smang

i wish capcom were better at updating characters. Birdie looks like dogshit IMO

dynamiteReady

At this stage (close to 20 plus games in the franchise? More perhaps?), I'd have preferred it if they did with SFV now, what they did with SF3 then, and just give a talented team the chance to replace everyone, bar Ken and Ryu.

Smang

or just update the characters. doing that would mean moveset copypasta ad nauseum. chuns PVC boots and spiky bracelets make sense in 1991 arcade land. also Ryu, mans doesn't even buy shoes you expect me to believe he shaves? and Cammys straps? put some pants on girl its 2015. A subtle tweak like Bisons new look for everyone would have been nice.

Roujin

Wait wait wait I've been in a conference all day, is Q confirmed for SF5!?

Cherry_Pez

Nope. We can but h(oro)pe.

dynamiteReady

There's an SF5 exhibition on Twitch...

dynamiteReady

It does not look shit at full tilt...

dynamiteReady

Justin's slinging a nice Bipson...

dynamiteReady

Chun li's chest is on some 'Tecmo' shit...

Escape

Roujin wrote:

Wait wait wait I've been in a conference all day, is Q confirmed for SF5!?

Curtis

This is worth watching if only for RZR RB's spectacular Birdie. He's taken to it instantly and he's playing the game the way it was designed around footsies, spacing and massive punishes.

I want this game!

Smang

have you signed up to the beta?

i want to know if it feels better to play than it looks....

tigersgogrrr

Yeah, having watched some full games with people like JWong playing, the game looks a lot better..

Smang

it does look more polished than previously shown footage. however the animation still irks me after spending 6 months with xrd tbh.

it's not that it's bad, but theres something jarring about some of it being tweened by the game engine and some of it looking keyframed by hand.

dynamiteReady

Smang wrote:

it does look more polished than previously shown footage. however the animation still irks me after spending 6 months with xrd tbh. it's not that it's bad, but theres something jarring about some of it being tweened by the game engine and some of it looking keyframed by hand.

That's true of all 3D animation though. Including XRD.

fullspectrum

Sometimes I'm glad I've never animated or drawn anything.

Smang

dynamiteReady wrote:

it does look more polished than previously shown footage. however the animation still irks me after spending 6 months with xrd tbh. it's not that it's bad, but theres something jarring about some of it being tweened by the game engine and some of it looking keyframed by hand.

That's true of all 3D animation though. Including XRD.

not quite, every single frame in xrd is hand 'drawn', there is 0 tweening. they made an actual point of it so that game still feels like a 2d fighter.

i can also do without this...

https://mobile.twitter.com/fightstreeter/status/610945366607986689/video/1

that's some DOA levels of jiggle man. do not want.

dynamiteReady

Smang wrote:

dynamiteReady wrote:

it does look more polished than previously shown footage. however the animation still irks me after spending 6 months with xrd tbh. it's not that it's bad, but theres something jarring about some of it being tweened by the game engine and some of it looking keyframed by hand.

That's true of all 3D animation though. Including XRD.

not quite, every single frame in xrd is hand 'drawn', there is 0 tweening. they made an actual point of it so that game still feels like a 2d fighter. i can also do without this... https://mobile.twitter.com/fightstreeter/status/610945366607986689/video/1 that's some DOA levels of jiggle man. do not want.

Hmm...

TV tropes say there's no tweening... Would be nice to see a proper breakdown though.
To be fair to you, I don't have the game.

Smang

dynamiteReady wrote:

Hmm... TV tropes say there's no tweening... Would be nice to see a proper breakdown though. To be fair to you, I don't have the game.

TV tropes? saywhat

funny you should mention...

somewhere in there they talk about the fact that every frame is hand drawn (posed?) with 0 animation being done by the CPU. if you know about animation etc it becomes quite clear when you see xrd moving, compared to sf4/sfxt etc.

dynamiteReady

Here's another source... It's very detailed.
You'll need Google translate though, and even after that, the language is still choppy.

http://www.4gamer.net/games/216/G021678/20140714079/

It suggests they did aim to apply claymation techniques in 3D.

They used Softimage, and created 'traditional' IK rigs for each character.
All poses were planned out on paper, and yeah... posed frame by frame by hand. Hmm...

In contrast, limited animation of GUILTY GEAR Xrd -SIGN-, move the character little by little, it has become a thing to go crowded create a single frame 1 Komapozu. So to speak, it flows like clay animation.

Never knew that...

I'm disputing the technique, because I know Pixar animators happily use tweens (obviously not all the time), and no one really complains about their work looking artificial. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Basically, I'm saying that if you think SF5 looks a bit weird in places (and I do agree), then I personally think it's because of the animators. Not the tweening algorithms. But it's not like I'm a TD at ILM here...

I just like the subject.

dynamiteReady

That vid is awesome by the way. Thanks.

dynamiteReady

This, also...

Smang

yeah i agree- but somethings are - like hair, clothes, and now chuns stupid rack, scarfs, belts etc. put those on top of keyframes it looks weird. pixar never let the viewers control the animation, so tweening in that case is just a timesaver - and probably checked frame by frame anyway.

not sure about 5 but a lot of the animation in sf4 is definitely tweened, there are even videos exploring that using the slow down from super arts.

http://shoryuken.com/2014/12/30/makoto-slows-time-to-show-off-various-ultra-street-fighter-iv-super-combo-animations/

i got used to it in 4, but i still think even in that game (and by virtue of association marvel and sfxt as well) the animation looks weird. it's hard to explain, but i just feel the animations don't match up with the way it feels, like moves that look really heavy not having any blockstun etc.

Cherry_Pez

I think the MP+MK V Tekkers are by far the most interesting part of the package so far. Alpha counters are always nice too. Anim doesn't hurt my eyes too much, just those BGs... Fucking blah. Anyway, fill it full of the weird and alternative of the SF back cat and we'll be laughing. Those bouts melt in seconds too, far better than the IV slogathons.

hylian_elf

R Mika would be good and I would still like a Sodom.

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