Work - The pros and the cons...
  • Its always a bitch to get promoted or a decent payrise internally at a company. Normally better to go elsewhere. I am also for all salaries being published internally. Would upset some folk but the transparency would be interesting...

    Edit: bloody page turn
  • cockbeard
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    Hmm, I'm not so sure. A lot of people aren't mature enough to handle the fact that they might not be as valuable as others. Especially in a world that values (and often misunderstands) equality as much as currently. Plus I often get quite well paid but a lot of my work is "invisible" to the end user, and there's no way I'm going to try and justify my wage around the water cooler
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • cockbeard
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    But with regards to Subs vacancies, if anyone has an interest in programming but it seems daunting and they're good at asking questions, then being a BA is a great step into IT. Super valuable and often overlooked job, but being able to communicate ideas, get to the root of requirements, and learning why things are possible or not is really good fun. If a mate asked me how to get into IT, it's definitely the role I think anyone on a support desk should be trying to go for first
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Subbax
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    I'd agree.  Our latest BA was actually an internal hire from Customer Support.  I even went from Customer Support to Operations to Database Wizard.  I have no formal qualifications in either area but I made it known I was into the database life, showed my out of hours work with my own SQL databases and got rewarded.

    I think one of the final paragraphs on all our job descriptions mention how even if you don't hit all the tickboxes, transferable skills are always taken into account.

    In the words of the great Wayne Gretzky, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
    It's a goddamn snoozefest out there.
  • Yeh BA is a good shout.
  • Yossarian
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    Business analyst from that description sounds pretty much like a product manager to me.
  • cockbeard
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    There are similarities, but a product manager "should" be more focused on the full road map of an individual item. Whereas the BA can get involved in the minutaie and be the conduit between stakeholders and developers, imo and all that
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Subbax
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    We have separate product owners, if that helps?  Like cocko says, the BA is the link between them and devs.
    It's a goddamn snoozefest out there.
  • Yossarian
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    cockbeard wrote:
    There are similarities, but a product manager "should" be more focused on the full road map of an individual item. Whereas the BA can get involved in the minutaie and be the conduit between stakeholders and developers, imo and all that

    The being a conduit part is about the most product-managery part of the description to me, but maybe that’s just how we define the role.
  • cockbeard
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    Likely just different companies with different definitions

    Spade, shovel, entrenching tool
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • These sound like fake jobs to me.
  • cockbeard wrote:
    But with regards to Subs vacancies, if anyone has an interest in programming but it seems daunting and they're good at asking questions, then being a BA is a great step into IT. Super valuable and often overlooked job, but being able to communicate ideas, get to the root of requirements, and learning why things are possible or not is really good fun. If a mate asked me how to get into IT, it's definitely the role I think anyone on a support desk should be trying to go for first
    cockbeard wrote:
    There are similarities, but a product manager "should" be more focused on the full road map of an individual item. Whereas the BA can get involved in the minutaie and be the conduit between stakeholders and developers, imo and all that

    Jesus, that sounds like the good parts of what I do but with added IT, which would be good to get in to but I can't code or do anything useful on a computer.  

    I like the field that I'm in and am good at it, but I'm not making good money here.  

    About pay transparency, I know roughly what everyone is paid because the NHS have open pay scales.  I also know that my colleagues with the same job title and banding do WAY less than I do, certainly around volume of work and service development.  It also seems perverse that I'm paid more than nurses saving or maintaining lives.  

    That doesn't mean I should be devalued (I can't afford to be downbanded!), I just think we don't value our nurses enough.
  • Yossarian
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    You might want to look into product management, you don’t need tech skills for that (beyond the basics, obvs), in fact some product managers consider it a disadvantage to be too technically-minded as you work closely with development teams but you need a certain distance from them to do the job well.
  • cockbeard
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    Yossarian wrote:
    You might want to look into product management, you don’t need tech skills for that (beyond the basics, obvs), in fact some product managers consider it a disadvantage to be too technically-minded as you work closely with development teams but you need a certain distance from them to do the job well.

    Super true

    While it's a good way to get to dev teams and start to understand the thinking and processes. If you drift from your stakeholders and end users you become useless. It's one of the reasons I'm so glad my background was in support, and I often use that to mark myself out as different from the average developer. I've been my own BA in the past, I can communicate ideas, I'm more valuable

    Edit: assuming he means BA and not product/project/change management, but as said above that's a difference in syntax we think

    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • @Subbax, can I find out more about this BA job?  I wanna see what the JD is like and see if I have the requisite transferrable skills, even if I'm too far away from the job to actually apply (I think you're more southlier than I am?)
  • btw thanks Yoss and Cocko, interesting stuff.  I've been looking for an industry / role I can jump to that doesn't require any steps back.
  • Subbax
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    Haha, I just sent you a message on the off chance you were interested.  I've sent the link to our Careers page and it'll be down there in the Cheltenham area.
    It's a goddamn snoozefest out there.
  • Hmm.. that is quite the commute, but it's nice to see a recognition of transferrable skills at the bottom of the JD.  Sounds like you work for a nice place.  

    Thank you, it does actually sound like an environment I can adapt to.
  • cockbeard
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    Good luck hands, it's a cracking job, but often a thankless one. You'll be asking the dev for the impossible, and then explaining to the stakeholder why they can't have what they want
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • More account manager jobs.
    2x Senior Account Manager roles. 1 perm the other fixed term.
    HRG are one of my clients. Their clients are demanding but it is an interesting place to work with a good atmosphere. Very fast paced so they will probably be looking for people who are well versed in handling clients and us drama queen creatives.

    https://www.hrg.co.uk/careers/senior-account-manager-permanent/
  • Subbax
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    Got a new role being created now.  A Learning & Development Manager, if that tickles your fancy.


    P.s I have taken several timekeeping courses and they just don't do anything for me.  I do try but eh, you know how it is.
    It's a goddamn snoozefest out there.
  • Sticking this hopefully behind a spoiler as it's a bit long winded:

    Spoiler:

    Also: I know a great investment opportunity if anyone's interested......
  • Yossarian
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    Sounds like the sort of thing that a Covid support fund may be able to help out with.
  • Yossarian wrote:
    Sounds like the sort of thing that a Covid support fund may be able to help out with.

    Someone else suggested that, but in all honesty, I've torn the arse out of that fund more than once over the last year. There are other, far more worthy badgers that may need it.
  • Yossarian
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    There are also badgers who are willing and able to top it back up if it looks like it’s running low.
  • Yossarian wrote:
    There are also badgers who are willing and able to top it back up if it looks like it’s running low.

    This.
  • I know, I know. Pride/guilt/shame won't let me though.
  • Yossarian
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    If it helps assuage that, you could always pay it back when you can. You did describe this as an investment.
  • Yossarian wrote:
    If it helps assuage that, you could always pay it back when you can. You did describe this as an investment.

    Badgers Den?

    Joking aside, best of luck with things HawBaw. That DPD stuff sounds horrendous.

    SFV - reddave360
  • Predictably, I failed the credit check for van rental. So now looking into buying an absolute banger, just to get me on the road.

    If anyone knows of a van going for REALLY cheap, let me know.

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