Tempy wrote:

A giant cherubs head, upside down with the physiology of a dragon adorned with gold and ivory blended into is, to me, wonderful. I'd take that kind of philosophy towards enemy design over any number of Locusts or whatever.

... but I can understand the concept of where the Locust might have come from, or why I'm fighting the Combine, or what's happened to release loads of zombies into the Left 4 Dead world.  An engaging storyline, even a perfunctory one, is an essential part of a game to me nowadays.  

If Bayonetta barely has a story, and just relies on generating pointless enemies with visual flair, then fair enough.  But to me that renders it not much more than an exercise in whacking buttons until said enemies explode.

Elmlea wrote:

Tempy wrote:

A giant cherubs head, upside down with the physiology of a dragon adorned with gold and ivory blended into is, to me, wonderful. I'd take that kind of philosophy towards enemy design over any number of Locusts or whatever.

... but I can understand the concept of where the Locust might have come from, or why I'm fighting the Combine, or what's happened to release loads of zombies into the Left 4 Dead world.  An engaging storyline, even a perfunctory one, is an essential part of a game to me nowadays.   If Bayonetta barely has a story, and just relies on generating pointless enemies with visual flair, then fair enough.  But to me that renders it not much more than an exercise in whacking buttons until said enemies explode.

I genuinely don't care where they have come from. Fighting them is fun.

Brooks wrote:

The cultural landscape it comes from is entirely different too so I'm not sure it is as simple as that.

Not that different. In fact women in Japan still get markedly raw-er deal than you'd expect considering their level of wealth and development.

I didn't know that, but it explains a lot of design choices in eastern developed games.

And they lack the kind of awareness/agitation movements we've come to expect to kick up around instances of mishandled gender portrayal in the West, so the chances of real reform are rather lower too.

Thing is, I do like that in other games!  Even the last Virtual-On game, or any number of innumerable fighting games, or El Shaddai, or whatever.  Developing your skills within a simple, fair rule set that a game sets out is one of the most satisfying things.  Just doesn't go together as well in Bayonetta, I find.

Elmlea wrote:

Thing is, I do like that in other games!  Even the last Virtual-On game, or any number of innumerable fighting games, or El Shaddai, or whatever.  Developing your skills within a simple, fair rule set that a game sets out is one of the most satisfying things.  Just doesn't go together as well in Bayonetta, I find.

Well I can certainly say that if you were willing to re-calibrate your mind from 'just a button basher' and find the moves you liked and learn how to string two weapon sets together, its depth becomes apparent. It still isn't as good a combat system as Devil May Cry 3, but those games always had a fairly lean move-set anyway, DMC3 introduced the mid-combo weapon switches which B. took up a notch. The simplicity of Dante's combos, plus the option to swap guns and the ability to then layer a specific 'stance' over the top of it means it is probably the best system out there, IMO. Couldn't tell you the plot of that game at gunpoint though, just that I beat it on hard.

Anyway, that's it from me on the Bayo front. Clearly it is a matter of taste as to whether it works for you or not, but the point of this thread I thought was to pick utterly shite games, but I just don't understand how anyone could call Bayonetta mechanically shite unless they were willing to lump every single brawler game with it, because only DMC3 is technically superior.

Bubsy the Bobcat it ain'.

Was gonna say Bubsy, Bubsy 2 is worse.

It is.

Seriously. I loved it back in the day but playing it recently was probably the worst twenty minutes of my life.

Goldeneye was definitely sup-bar if you'd played Quake and things to excess before you got a go on it.

Said it before, but Gears needs a charactershop to solve itself.

hylian_elf wrote:

Someone also said Goldeneye is/was shit. Can't remember who.

adkm said it.

How anyone can say that GE is anything less than good is beyond me. Fair enough if you think its below par now.. years and years later but at the time it was insanely good.

Unlikely wrote:

Killer 7 was also total mince.

You're doing it wrong.

Also, everything about Far Cry 2 was awesome - one of the best from this gen.

Yeah, I first played it back when it came out and gave up mid-way through the first level in disgust. It's not helped by the fact that they only think to start explaining the plot after the first boss encounter. It's only recently that I've given it the time it needs.