Weird Stuff (tinfoil hat wearing goons only, please)
  • Touché.

    Do we need to make a distinction between ‘of extraterrestrial origin’ and ‘of terrestrial origin’ to talk about scary shit under the ice?
  • Depends which season of the X-Files you watched I guess.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • Probably all of them, given this is the tinfoil hat thread.
  • Roujin wrote:
    Caltech seem pretty confident since 2019 Oumuamua is not a alien. For anyone interested in what the actual scientists have said about it as well as the people grifting because they got podcast sponsors they need to attract and books to sell.  https://authors.library.caltech.edu/97422/2/1907.01910.pdf

    Thanks for the link, will have a read later.
    You are sounding pretty harsh there. Seems to me like he is an "actual scientist" according to his Harvard page at least. Because he has a book coming out he is a grifter? We should automatically discount what he is saying?

    @GurtTractor Thanks, I had found that one and am in the middle of it at the moment.  Im not finished, but sounds to me like he is saying an alien origin is not off the table, that there isnt proof for some of the natural origin theories either.
    @Diluted Dante That makes me sad.
    http://horganphoto.com My STILL under construction website
    PSN : superflyninja
  • I am being harsh that is fair. 

    But if this guy wants to bowl about the place telling people this thing is a sail, or it came from some far away system, when there's no proof of that and it can already be explained by rational theories, and he just so happens to also have a book he's selling that's related to UFOs then yeah, he's doing a big old grifty, grifterson. 

    I believe in extra terrrestrial life, for what it's worth. I don't think we are alone in the galaxy, let alone the entire universe and I fully believe and hope that some form of life is found in our solar system in like Europa or Encaladus, or even the traces of simple organisms somewhere in my life time. But I think it's important to consider that although we don't know a lot of things, particularly in regard to the quantum behaviour of elements in our universe, we know enough to know things that mean our galactic neighbourhood is actually very small, and that we may never see or hear our neighbours purely because of the distances involved, even at light speed. Although primitive, we have sent out probes to investigate our solar system, semi autonomous, small craft, because those are the easiest to launch into space. In time, fully autonomous, if we get suitably competent AI that could control one of these craft directly. It is logical to assume that other sufficiently advanced civilisations would do the same, rather than send a crewed vessel all the way out somewhere, unless for that species, space travel was so ubiquitous, that interstellar travel has become as trivial as simply learning to drive a car, and that the risk of people just going off into space and potentially dying somehow and never being able to be recovered was the same kind of risk we have of getting into a serious accident when popping down to tesco.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • LivDiv wrote:
    I look forward to us thawing out planetary ice cubes to find skin rotting bacteria that will be bought back to Earth in Richard Branson's beard.

    "Its just like ecsma and we've lived with that for years" they will say "bunch of snowflakes wearing hazmat suits to Morrisons" say others.

    "Remember if you are showing signs of your skin peeling off or volcanic legions you must stay at home unless your office job requires you to come in."

    In a serious note bringing back samples of any kind of microbe life found on other planets is dangerous beyond belief
    PSN - minkymu
  • Tldr, he is just open-minded. Thinks scientists are too narrow in their approach, don't discount something because it is ludicrous, discount when there is proof.
  • Yeah I don't think there's a problem being open minded, but it's when people just provide the open minded bit of their conjecture and then don't even mention that basically the studies currently show what it probably is. 

    Caveat - I haven't listened to the podcast so I dunno how he talked about the details, if he did cool. If he just spent the entire time saying what he thought it was, without acknowledging the current research findings, then that sucks tbh, if you're gonna be mr harvard professor man. Although tbh, Jordan Peterson is a professor, so it's hardly an indisputable yardstick of academic prowess.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • Okay so I'm listening now. At the 25:00 onwards they are talking about the object and they talk about how the shape of the object based on it's reflectivity and the non gravitational acceleration could not be explained and the object has to be a flat disc, less than 1mm thick. Here's what the Caltech paper has to say on Page 8, with their sources listed about this claim:
    Alien technology? The idea of ‘Oumuamua as alien technology has been advocated in a series of papers41, 78, 79. The authors argue that the dimensions needed to explain the observed solar radiation pressure are consistent with a “solar sail.” While this fits some aspects of the observations — the basic idea of ‘Oumuamua having a highly flattened shape was previously considered17, 18 — it appears unable to explain other key aspects of the observations, and some arguments in favor of this hypothesis are simply wrong.

    The key argument against the solar sail hypothesis is ‘Oumuamua’s light curve amplitude. In order for a solar sail to cause the observed non-gravitational acceleration, it needs to remain properly oriented towards the Sun. However, in order to yield the observed brightness variations, its orientation would need to be varying as viewed from Earth.

    Furthermore, since the actual dimensions of the solar sail would be > 10 : 1, the orientation as viewed from Earth would need to be very nearly edge on, and remain so throughout the observations despite viewing geometry changes. It has not been shown that an orientation exists that can achieve all of these constraints imposed by the observational data.

    Furthermore, as discussed earlier, the shape of ‘Oumuamua’s light curve, with broad maxima and narrow minima, is consistent with an elongated ellipsoid.

    The claim78 that ‘Oumuamua must be at least ten times “shinier” than all Solar System asteroids to make the Spitzer Space Telescope data consistent with the ground based observations is incorrect. The Spitzer observations are consistent with geometric albedos 0.01 ≤ pv ≤ 0.5 3, with a most likely albedo of pv ∼ 0.1. Comets have geometric albedos of pv = 0.02 − 0.07, carbonaceous and silicate asteroids have pv = 0.05 − 0.21, and the most reflective asteroids have pv ∼ 0.5 80, 81. Thus ‘Oumuamua’s measured reflectivity of ∼ 0.1 is entirely consistent with normal Solar System small bodies.

    Finally, it was argued that ‘Oumuamua was deliberately sent toward Earth based on its “unusual” kinematics and presumed scarcity41. While provocative, this argument is baseless. First, ‘Oumuamua’s trajectory is consistent with predictions22 for detectable inactive interstellar objects. Second, the measured number density cannot be claimed to be at odds with expectations because of our ignorance of the size distribution of interstellar objects.

    Thus, we find no compelling evidence to favor an alien explanation for ‘Oumuamua.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • My man is literally just giving complete conjecture at the 35:00 talking about how they might be communication beacons or a probe or some shit. This is what annoys me, this guy has harvard professor clout and his confirmation bias in this discussion is embarrassing. He hasn't addressed any of the evidence collected, he's just ignored it all so he can riff on aliens for a couple of hours.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • But riffing on aliens earns him fame and money. Why deny him his kudos and fortune over something as mundane as *checks notes* evidence and truth?
  • Hey he can grift if he wants to grift. Man's gotta eat. It's not like he's peddling anything harmful here. 

    People just shouldnt be out here getting a pass on their wild shit because they're a professor of astrophysics from Harvard. People straight up listening to this guy thinking "Oh shit this thing could be a UFO, or a message from other life forms." when there's no evidence for that, almost everything they know about this object is explainable, and the paper even goes on to outline the things they can't explain about it.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • You just made their list Rouj.
  • Ive no problem with him conjecturing and doing what ifs, he is trying to drum up some business which is fine and dandy in my book. Id shill as hard as him if i was launching a book tbf.
    One of my big complaints about his interview with JR was that very little facts were brought up. 
    In these scenarios, Id love nothing more than a podcast/video of both sides arguing their case. 

    If he is willfully ignoring facts that invalidate his theory then quite frankly fuck that guy.
    http://horganphoto.com My STILL under construction website
    PSN : superflyninja
  • Well we can establish he is in fact ignoring the facts since the ISSI paper is from July 2019 and he is here in 2021 just chatting shit. If i was the professor of atrophysics from Harvard, I'd probably check no one had almost completely dismantled my theories on what Oumuamua might be, that i made at the time when perhaps all the information wasn't known, but now it is, and the object does indeed appear to most likely be a cigar shaped asteroid which passed through the solar system.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • FTR anyone on this forum could have gone on that podcast and said what Loeb said and it would be cool, even if you have a book out, because no one here is a professor of astrophysics from Harvard.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • Speak for yourself.
  • I hereby challenge all the shy professors of astrophysics from harvard to defend their Oumuamua ideologies.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • Roujin wrote:
    I hereby challenge all the shy professors of astrophysics from harvard to defend their Oumuamua ideologies.

    In The Thunderdome.
  • No I am very weak, I will simply sit here and quote excerpts from the paper at them until they give up.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • Roujin wrote:
    No I am very weak, I will simply sit here and quote excerpts from the paper at them until they give up.

    Its the WWE Thunderdome.
  • Oh you didn't mention I could use PEDs, I'm back in the game and I'm gonna be yoked outta my skull!
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • If not aliens then how about oh, say, Draculas.  No ghosts.  I think it was ghosts.  Disprove that with your ‘papers’.
  • Okay look, we all know Mr. Pipes was real, and was fucking scary as shit, Unc, and it happened on LIVE TV, on Halloween. Scariest shit of my entire childhood.
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • I saw that and didn’t even for one second not realise that I hadn’t just seen a poltergeist disaster on live tv.  Scared the fuck out of me.
  • Roujin wrote:
    Well we can establish he is in fact ignoring the facts since the ISSI paper is from July 2019 and he is here in 2021 just chatting shit. If i was the professor of atrophysics from Harvard, I'd probably check no one had almost completely dismantled my theories on what Oumuamua might be, that i made at the time when perhaps all the information wasn't known, but now it is, and the object does indeed appear to most likely be a cigar shaped asteroid which passed through the solar system.
    Thing is I haven't read his side of the argument. I would imagine he is presenting facts to support his theory too. I find it crazy to think that a Harvard professor would make this argument and release a book about it if he didn't have some leg to stand on, as you say the extract seems to confirm it likely to be a cigar shape, I wonder if he addresses this?
    It's kind of difficult to compare an interview with the likes of Joe Rogan with a scientific paper.
    http://horganphoto.com My STILL under construction website
    PSN : superflyninja
  • The best thing about science that makes it actually useful and worth trusting for the most part is that it is based on a methodology of peer review and scientific consensus.

    In this context it means that it's not about taking someone seriously just because they are a scientist, but taking their hypothesis seriously based on the assessment of the available evidence from many scientists who have studied the data and come to some kind of conclusion.
  • You can always entertain an individual's argument, but taking it seriously as a likely explanation requires a little more rigour.
  • I saw that and didn’t even for one second not realise that I hadn’t just seen a poltergeist disaster on live tv.  Scared the fuck out of me.

    Yeah Ghostwatch shook young Skade up good and proper. It didnt help my dads place (that I watched it at) was old and its pipes banged.

    I see to recall it was quite a thing in the news for a few days after.
    Can-of-sprite
  • Ghostwatch was incredible at the time, genuine chills.

    Thoughts on the Enfield poltergeist? I'm a skeptic (is that not a word? Spell check tells me it isn't) at heart but the voice the girl was doing is apparently impossible, and she did it whilst having a mouth full of water or something. I still think elaborate hoax like the mongoose but I still enjoy the stories, and I always keep a tiny sliver of my mind open because, why not?


    Anyway, I think it's certain that at some point, maybe hundreds of years from now, who knows, but at some point, there will be people living in a simulation. It just makes sense - as soon as we can emulate reality perfectly (look how far tech has come in the last 60 odd years) we'll run sims of our history, many of them. I would. So there will be loads of people living in a sim, blissfully unaware.

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