No.

Always brings a smile seeing the name Dredd, it reminds me of Gav's Stallone impersonation and the chorus of badgers chipping in.

Jones is in pre-prod with Rogue Trooper.

It's really amazing how Disney have apparently managed to run Star Wars into the ground in just five years.

The gf made me sit through Lost so I know the perils of the JJ Mystery Box. But that was the only redeemable bit for me from TFA. The idea that there was a better, more interesting story there than the one we were getting. Tearing it up was probably the worst bit of TLJ. But I can understand how someone creative came in and was a bit uninspired by just remaking Empire Strikes Back with a BIG REVEAL and all the rest of it.

Funkstain wrote:

It was bigger than that, I think. The whole template was bullshit (ie: the same story exactly as was and will be evermore with some fancier lightsabre fights), so rip it up: no snoke/emperor, no empire vs rebels - what does dark side vs light side mean outside of those tropes? not just for these two protagonists trying to find their way, but the wider population?

how does the rebellion survive its almost-annihilation? what kind of journey does Ren go on when he realises that the promises made by Snoke were empty and he murdered his father for them? Maybe he discovers something bigger about the meaning of his actions, his ambitions, his drive?

Certainly it would help explain one of the most annoying mystery boxes: why does this kid training to be a Jedi decide to murder a bunch of kids and then his dad? It's no good doing a handwavey "oh dark side corrupts all", like the incomprehensible shift in Anakin in RotS

I don't see how this is any less of a 'mystery box' than we got in TFA. It's just random ideas and themes that come from no where and go nowhere...none of it is part of a larger story that was planned beyond that one film.

I don't hate TLJ because it dared to have a different idea, i hate it cos they were badly implemented/didn't suit the existing narrative /required people acting out of character etc.
The concept of Luke rejecting the force is interesting, but I'd bet very heavily that was not for one second part of the thinking for TFA...the way it was shoe horned in to TLJ i thought was totally out of character, and the resolution of Luke's story totally underwhelming and pointless in the wider scheme. However if it had been part of the larger trilogy story from the beginning it could have easily been done much more satisfactorily.

This idea that TLJ is so unique and clever, and people just hate it cos it's not what they expected, is complete bobbins as far as I'm concerned.

Funkstain wrote:

Certainly it would help explain one of the most annoying mystery boxes: why does this kid training to be a Jedi decide to murder a bunch of kids and then his dad? It's no good doing a handwavey "oh dark side corrupts all", like the incomprehensible shift in Anakin in RotS

Incomprehensible? Come on, those little Jedi younglings were basically begging to be slaughtered! Arrogant little shits.

monkey wrote:

The gf made me sit through Lost so I know the perils of the JJ Mystery Box. But that was the only redeemable bit for me from TFA. The idea that there was a better, more interesting story there than the one we were getting. Tearing it up was probably the worst bit of TLJ. But I can understand how someone creative came in and was a bit uninspired by just remaking Empire Strikes Back with a BIG REVEAL and all the rest of it.

it's funny I often think we're thought-adjacent

the point I get from your post is that the imitation story NEEDED something better, more interesting than the one it was telling, so you'd accept the mystery boxes as at least the potential for that.


My point interlaces with that (I agree TFA core story is boring cos it's the same, I agree the saga as a whole needs something new and interesting) and looks at the boxes differently: they are a lazy and sometimes catastrophic way of introducing interest, without doing the hard work with characters and story that allows for reveals as you go.

Again His Dark Materials was superlative for this: Lyra's story starts off so small, so local - but everything she sees YOU see through her eyes, as her world gradually then rapidly expands: Oxford, London, Gyptians, the North, Other WORLDS! the gradually figured out mysteries of the alethiometer, daemons, dust...you figure these things out as the characters do. there's none of this frustrating feeling that others know far more than you do and you have to wait until they can be bothered to expose it to you with an AHA REVEAL mystery boxes are for lazy fuckers like abrams and internet nerds to argue about on forums

The biggest problem with TLJ is you can’t have a reasonable conversation about it.

It is unique in a lot of ways. It’s a case study of what happens when you give an inoperable universe to a film maker with priors in upending ideas and conventions.

It’s a mark of the absolute hubris Disney had when they bought the franchise and had fuck all idea what to do with, burnt the extended universe to the ground, and handed a trilogy to three different film makers.

But - and all respect and apologies to Jedi here as I know he loves star wars and gets passionate about his dislike of this film- you just cannot talk about its successes and failures from different perspectives, and how they are based on the incredulous and nonsense phenomenon that is Star Wars and its unplanned universe, when the argument comes to down to the whole “Rose sucks!” “yo momma jokes!” “Luke is rubbish” angle.

Cos all of that stuff works for a lot of people, many of them
massive Star Wars fans, and I think the marmite reception it gets and the status given to Star Wars makes the actual
interesting conversations about it impossible to have. Reminds me of trying to talk to Roujin about it. We had some productive back and forth, but so much of it was tangled up in very hard to unthread ideas.

I think the inability to look past the visceral dislike of it and think about what it’s trying to do, and why even if that failed, it might have been valuable to do is far more interesting that just disregarding it.

Essentially I think it broke Star Wars, not because it is bad, or because Star Wars is bad, but because the universe without the extended stuff is utterly bereft of any kind of consistently or depth, and trying to do something different* with it is impossible.

As a minor example, I think taking Luke Skywalker - a character who is literally The Heroes Journey 101- and trying to tease that idea out into something different is a great idea. But Star Wars films seem to actively refuse that kind of experimentation.

Anyway, I want to make it abundantly clear it’s totally fine to love it hate it, but I do think refusing to approach it with some kind of critical nuance misses an opportunity for discussion beyond “it bad, you dumb”

*specifically talking about the main line films here - I think  they’re doomed to be the same story over and over

Edit: just want to go completely out of my way to say that I don't think there isn't a point talking about whether it is a good or bad film, I just personally feel there's something a lot more interesting under the surface than that

So I just finished TLJ, my first viewing. Hmmmm. Lots going on, a real mix of fun/interesting/well shoot scenes, and total BS. So pretty unsatisfactory all in. BUT it's left me well hyped for tomorrow evening - let's hope this shit ends with a bang (*)!


(*) not literal bang, pls

I'm back on Battlefront 2. Such a fun game for SW nerds.

The free support is actually very impressive on this. They are still releasing maps and heroes at a semi-steady rate and just dropped a load of stuff to tie (pun) in with the new movie.
There is a 20 quid DLC to get the new movie skins but it does unlock 350 skins total, many are clone trooper variants but £20 for that many cosmetics isn't bad and it is optional.


I would love some Mando stuff, especially as Boba Fett doesn't have any alternate skins, not even a Jango skin.

They dug deep into the cannon though, even the Clone Commandos are in. Unfortunately they seem to have dropped the Death Troopers in the process, seems odd to remove content.

A lot of the complaints were that Rey was teased as having lineage but then snoke said “nah”.

GooberTheHat wrote:

You can always trust a sith lord to tell the truth to a force sensitive person they are trying to manipulate. They are well known for their honesty.

Ha.
Yeah I never took Snoke or Ren's version as gospel, could easily be changed without being obtuse.

You make interesting points Tempy for sure.
But believe it or not Im not a star wars uber geek. I couldnt tell you whether the Sarlacc pit was in ep 5 or 6.
Johnson wanting to break the mold for SW is admirable. Maybe some movie down the line will capitalise on those beginnings and do something great.

Interesting point Ram. I never considered the Luke flip in TLJ, but subconsciously just enjoyed the scenes. It actually reinforces the fact that the new films are just playing beats of the originals in slightly different ways. TBH, I don’t mind that as long as the film itself is entertaining. Still don’t think TLJ had enough entertainment value.

As for Yoda in the prequels it was one of the highlights for me amongst a lot of crap. The idea of a Jedi master at the height of his powers was a brilliant scene.