Dubs wrote:

Hit Share after clearing the game, video here, but didn't after the Game Over because the loop was just embarrassing and I was having a little sulk.

I like the way modern ports do simple, thoughtful things like having a count down when returning from the pause menu. Save stating in MAME can be hazardous for example!!

DavyK, what would you say are the top three horizontal and vertical shooters of all time? (Any console, mame included). If thats too much hardwork then just what you think is the best vertical and horizontal shooters.

Your choices are splendid @cockbeard, but of course given the richness and heritage of the genre mine differ a bit. And better than I (e.g. @Dubs) would no doubt differ again - no doubt he would have shouts for Ikaruga and Ketsui re vertical.

But mine are :

Vertical :
DoDonPachi : the original for me even though many say its sequel is better - and maybe it is - this is just SUCH a clever game - this moved the genre onto the modern era.
Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 : for pure entertainment and beauty - again some say the Black Label version is better - I'll stick with 1.5 though.
Layer Section - old school but with a really addictive secondary lock on weapon and the level design is again - pure entertainment

Horizontal : 
Gra/Paro - dius : there's a lot in the series - if I had to pick one it would be Parodius 2 : Fantastic Journey - that's what I've played the most.
Darius Gaiden - the Darius games don't do it for me - but Darius Gaiden does - is the best in the series and elevates it all by itself.
Deathsmiles  - another Cave game - but this is so accessible even though it's a total bullet fest which might put people off - but it's gorgeous and hugely entertaining.


Other : 
Asteroids Dx (of course!!!) Has to be in the cabinet though.
Geometry Wars 2 - usurps Robotron and Smash TV as the best arena shooter around.
Tempest - I'm staying with the original even though T2K is probably a "better" game. But this game in the original cabinet is a better experience.

Taking asteroids and tempest out of that since they are pretty inaccessible, I'd replace them with Tempest 2000 and Bangai-O maybe? Hard to say though - you start to blur the lines.

cockbeard wrote:

DDP was close to pushing out Garegga out for me, and I've heard so much good about Mushi Futari but never played it. Will check out Layer Section though, new name to me. I only asked about adding arena (new name to me, makes complete sense, will use) shooters so I could add Asteroids, but then distracted myself with not being able to exclude the three I added. Such a rich genre, hell one (in fact two) of my choices was literally a loveletter to all that has gone before

Layer Section is also known as Galactic Attack, Gunlock and Rayforce. One of those games that changed name each region and changed again when ported to the Saturn. Great old school scaling sprite work and a real JP soundtrack (that got some enhancement on Saturn).

It was developed by Taito....MAMEable - but I first played it on Saturn and it got a stupendous port. It's rock hard though.

Futari isn't all that accessible now as I don't think MAME handles it  - it plays region free on the 360 but that might not be cheap now. It's what got me into playing modern shooters. I picked up quite a few region free shmups for 360 before prices started to climb and the PAL region got some great releases too. Deathsmiles, DDP DFK, Under Defeat and Akai Katana all got PAL releases and were dirt cheap at one point - no idea now.

Vertical:
Mushi Futari 1.5
Ikaruga
Dodonpachi DFK BL

Horizontal:
Gradius V
Akai Katana Shin
R-Type 3??

Other:
Resogun
Nex Machina
Geometry Wars RE 2

That's some good games there elf, and once again a couple I wish I'd played more often

Sorry dino, it really is an impossible ask. It's like dance music come the 2000's there a million different sub genres which all have a few bots of gold in them

I don’t think R-Type Leo is very good personally, if that’s what you’re meaning by 3, Elf?

RYType 3 is a SNES exclusive and is very good. The first level is too long but that's its only real fault. RType is just a bit too reliant on memory for me to make it into my top 3. Its ideas are brilliant but the level restricts any creativity on the part if the player. RType Final would be my pick of that series.

Tempy wrote:

I don’t think R-Type Leo is very good personally, if that’s what you’re meaning by 3, Elf?

I liked it, but to be honest I would struggle to name great horizontal shmups as I’ve not played that many. R-Type Final I had once but never played it much. There are few from SNES days I like but again none I’d say are that good.

I must have missed Three for Leo years ago when I played a ton of shmups, i’m an idiot

Hori-shooters tend not to feature in greatest ever lists. They tend to be survival games - the aim being just to get to the end on 1 credit. Nothing wrong with that - just they don't offer a lot of replay value once that's done.

The better games offer a score challenge once the survival challenge has been achieved - and those games are to a large extent vertical. There are a few exceptions. Akai Katana seems to offer scoring opportunites though I haven't spent any real time with it. Deathsmiles definitely has scoring rules that reward repeat play. I've spent some time with that but nowhere near enough.

Games with good scoring schemes can be good even for those who just play for survival - the first couple of levels can be less of a chore to play through going for higher scores and if that also gives you 1ups all the better for beating the game on 1 credit.

The only older hori-game that really rewards repeat play is Darius Gaiden - but that's mainly because of its branching level path structure as opposed to score tactics - I suspect that harder routes through the game offer higher scoring opportunities.

RType Final is all about repeat play - its Score Attack mode lets you play any level using any ship you have unlocked and there are hundreds of possible ship/remote combos to try. 

I've played a bit of RType Leo and it's an enjoyable survival shooter. It looks like RType but doesn't really play like it that much though.

Strayed some more tonight an played a bit more DFK when I know I should be working on Samurai Aces.

Had a quick look at Arrange B - what a weird mode that is. Haven't ever seen a shmup with so many numbers and meters on screen. Played through level 1 a few times - I like the idea of single level score attacks and this one seems to be something I can get my teeth into.

Tried 1.5 mode to compare with 1.5 Novice (C-Strong again). Messed about a bit trying to activate the Ura path but kept screwing up. Got to the level 4 boss. I reckon I could do it by getting to level 5 with enough resources with some focussed practice and fall over the line but I need to leave it until I get Aces done.   Gorgeous game and replay value to the rafters. I have this on Steam as well as it has the Arrange BL mode which is like a DFK/Ketsui style crossover that's missing from the 360 port but I haven't spent any real time with that - got it when it was going cheap so it's in the bank as it where.

Aye - level 5 has those laser carousels - I reckon just getting there with enough bombs and keeping your hyper ready is key to getting a survival clear. Even in novice I just bumbled through it as I got there with plenty of lives.

With Arrange B you play single levels with a user selected ship type and style. It's pure score attack. Losing a life takes a chunk of points off one of your score counters.

There are two counters under the score - one red and one blue. And there's an array of values at the bottom of the screen. Normal shot is automatic so it seems to be about lasering and/or bombing and/or hypering at the right time.

I am led to believe that subsequent playthroughs of a level has the rank adjusted depending on the last game - higher ranks opening up more scoring chances with the difficulty. Sounds like a bit of a rabbit hole though I suspect there will be walls to hit unless you get into the scoring mechanics.

cockbeard wrote:

That's some good games there elf, and once again a couple I wish I'd played more often

Sorry dino, it really is an impossible ask. It's like dance music come the 2000's there a million different sub genres which all have a few bots of gold in them

I was just looking for some recommendations really for my mame setup when i get around to it. More than a few between yourself, elf and dave i hadnt heard of that i am gonna YouTube.

Came close with Samurai Aces at lunchtime. Was feeling good but then lost 2 lives in level 5 - stupid ones too.