I Wanna Get It On With Jahbulon : The Shmups/STG Thread - The Bear and Badger

cockbeard

I've had a couple of lucky runs, but even no lives no bombs first stage seems a little beyond me just yet, so I'm gonna do a whole bunch of pacifist runs to find me an optimal route. I'm with Dubs in preferring green, just seems to work better for me, had a couple of good goes with blue, but does she maybe have a bigger hitbox, I seemed to get caught more often

nick_md

Thanks guys, I'm sorted, will get stuck in over the weekend.

davyK

Jesus , @Dubs has done it already......that's hilarious - me arseing about for months with it!!!

Maybe I should do as he recommends and try with green.....

It definitely felt better than I remembered when I gave it a try last night.

davyK

btw - downloaded and tried Raiden V on Steam - was 75% off. Not sure I like it. A lot of storyline waffle going on in the borders WHILE YOU PLAY and unskippable sequences - unforgivable in this genre - and its graphics are overly fussy making it suffer from bullet vision.....a step back from Raiden IV. No TATE either. Dear oh dear. There is a nice game in there with plenty of play value but glad I didn't pay full price.

Right back to Gigawing. I'm going to get into this tomorrow and try green.

cockbeard

Using green I can get to the boat half the time only losing a cheap life just before the mid-boss, but I think if I was shooting there'd be less screen clutter so might get away with that. Boat is still a (bit of a) pain, but looks like he times his attacks similarly to the reflect regen, so could probably use that more often. I need to set some save states, especially as it's about a dozen button presses to start the game

davyK

The boat is definitely a pain - you'll find the next two not as bad.

Advantage of green is the boat is level 1 - it can get nasty in level 3 if you don't put it away fast in its 2nd phase.

cockbeard

I know pacifist runs go against everything the game designed for, but less initial clutter helps me see where I should be going, stops me chasing dangerous powerups later, and playing on keyboard means my diagonal moves are dodgy as hell. Done a few unlimited 10p blasts, third boss has some pretty closed firing patters so will need to stay central despite wanting to go wide to reflect back so much more fire

hylian_elf

davyK wrote:

Jesus , @Dubs has done it already......that's hilarious - me arseing about for months with it!!!

There really isn’t any point in comparing yourself to Dubs though. He isn’t human! Some kind of machine.

davyK

Dont worry ....i have no allusions in that direction...his ikaruga runs were enough. Then he does a ketsui 2all.....

Mental.

davyK

@cockbeard.

I'm fine with keyboard for old school left/right shooters but cant really handle 8 way movement with it. Even a cheapo usb pad would be better? I imagine that is holding you back.

I actually get on quite well with the 360 pad...play Futari and dfk that way.....not that I've ever made great progress with those games either mind !!! Still havent made level 5 on futari...and have only 1cced dfk novice....sitting back from the screen doesnt exactly help i suppose.

cockbeard

Thinking of grabbing a Hori Mini stick from somewhere, seem to be around £20, and it will get use. Probably get a DS3 for next to nothing as well, which would help with a lot of the platformers I haven#t touched

davyK

So played some Gigawing with green. Played the Dreamcast version. I need to settle on a version really - they do feel a bit different. The DC version feels smoother - they largely play the same though - I can use the same patterns and routes. I'm sure score chasers would notice the difference though.

It does feel good with green. I had to spend a bit of time no-missing up to level 4 though. And the level 4 boss is more difficult. Red takes him down very quickly and you have get in close using green so that's taking a bit of getting used to but I don't see it as being a big problem.

So getting to level 5 felt weird - I'm keeping to my red route which has to be executed very accurately because of the narrow fire - I have lot more room with green. I'm getting ahead of where I expect to be at times which causes errors - it will be interesting to see how well I can do.

I suspect the level 6 boss will be a bit easier too with the wider fire. Will be fun to see how I do.

I'll spoiler a few score tricks that I know. @Dubs might find them amusing...

Spoiler:

davyK

cockbeard wrote:

stops me chasing dangerous powerups later

You only need 3 to max out - once you learn where you get them I found power up chasing not an issue. Best to just bomb or reflect after a life loss to get them back on later levels.

davyK

Well, well, well.

Green is the pick of the bunch. I totally underestimated the power of those grenades. I'm pretty sure I'd have had a 1CC by now if I was using it.

It cuts through the large level 5 enemies like butter.....

Created some save states for lvl 4 ande 5 so I can get confident with them. Playing high up the screen on level 4 is possible in places - taking out the wide wing craft early really makes a difference.

davyK

Another session there.

Level 4 is pretty much in the bag for me now and I've an amended route for level 5 which is a lot more comfortable. I'm chilling out about using a bomb or two in level 5 should the need arise. Managing the boss OK - probably because I'm used to the pain of fighting him with red. I've been able to down him relatively pain free.

Save state for level 6 and it feels very different with green again - The 2nd phase sections can be dealt with faster. Haven't beat it with a no miss but I've have another session later.

Could have had a 1CC with this when I last was seriously playing this 2 years ago - I was no missing to level 6 with red back then.

I'm setting myself a goal for a 1CC next weekend with regular running during the week. This game is starting to feel doable - more so than when I came close a couple of years ago.

Dubs

You can do it Davy! Surprised you didn't give green a try sooner, consensus seems to be that it's best for both scoring and survival. I just keep the options forward all the time, does great damage when you fly over enemies during a reflect.
Cleared with red at the weekend, definitely less forgiving for stage 4+5 but ideally you'll have half a dozen bombs at that point. A reflect, bomb, then reflect again eats up a good chunk of the stage so I'll often use a couple to get through stage 5. Not sure I'll bother with blue and pink, they feel frustratingly weak and slow now.

davyK

Impressive stuff @Dubs. You ate that game up for breakfast!

Pretty sure I can run it as green - not sure how I missed out on the consensus view. Keeping those options forward is definitely key and it isn't too hard to ensure that happens - just keep hammering the fire button...

Reassuring to hear you are happy with a couple of bombs for stage 5.....under bombing has always been an issue with me. I lose far too many lives with a full bomb stock. Think that's a common problem non-expert players have.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Dreamcast version if you get a chance to try it - it feels a bit faster and more difficult. I'll be sticking with MAME.

cockbeard

Not sure about concensus (purely becasue I'm far more an observer than a trend setter here), but I tried them all on first day, had a couple of good runs with purple, felt like blue had a HUGE hitbox, settled on green and feel vindicated. However am still not 1 lifing stage one, which sucks. Also the waves of green things after mid boss, I think they start right or left based on actions prior as it switches depending how soon I killed midboss

Also, yeah bloody well done dubs, that was pretty mad on the skills front there

davyK

The quicker you kill the mid boss the more of those enemies you get..@cockbeard.

The hit box seems to be the yellow coloured cockpit - looks smaller with green too which is another reason to go with that ship.

I fell for purple when I first played it too - dropped that after reading a guide on shmups.com but I didn't pick up on the preference for green. It really does make a difference - by far the best ship to go for. Also - if you play as player 2 you have slightly higher damage according to those over at shmups.com too - so can help with boss fights.

cockbeard

Once I timed the reflect I switch left and right on him to get both sides of his attack, then go central and fire kills him before he starts attack pattern two, but yeah they always started left before, no matter when I killed him then read your post and changed arcade difficulty to max for one go, no real difference just single bullets became trebles, but after that (probably coincided with me killing mid boss faster) the next waves started switching sides

davyK

I've noticed they usually start from the left but it's all to do with timing. I've found they start from the right more often on the Dreamcast version.

Dubs

davyK wrote:

Reassuring to hear you are happy with a couple of bombs for stage 5.....under bombing has always been an issue with me. I lose far too many lives with a full bomb stock. Think that's a common problem non-expert players have.

Yes, good bomb use is an overlooked skill. Usually you end up focusing on the perfect run while training, whether intentionally or not, so bombing feels like something you shouldn't be doing.
I'm the same with not bombing but it's something I feel I got better at from playing Ketsui this time. Looking at my run (after the salt subsides) and identifying the sections I'm inconsistent at clearing. Then actually practicing using bombs, literally just getting used to pressing the button, so that if things look out of whack in a full run I can bomb with less hesitation.

Trying to run DOJ and a few others in shmupmame and I get errors regarding CHD files. I have no idea how to work this thing tbh.

davyK

I have DOJ working OK with shmupMAME 3 & 4 so it should be OK - I have the BL ROM working too as far as I remember.

Will have a look around at my setup

Might be easier for me to just zip up my mame dir and make that available...

davyK

Just realised CHD files are for extra content with a game - support for that is flakey.

I used to love highscore.dat support but they dropped that too.

Savestates do that though.

Dubs

Spent a while searching for solutions and grabbing files but I can't get DOJ, Dangun Feveron and others to run. Would be great if I could nick your stuff, Davy, B&B dropbox perhaps? Don't go out of your way though, it's hardly urgent, I have Doom Eternal on the way but I guess the post is running a bit slow.

Had a go on Mars Matrix instead. Seems pretty tough! Reflecting's more unwieldy than Gigawing and the bullet patterns are more akin to a Cave game, albeit much faster for the most part. Going to watch STG Weekly to try and get a handle on it.

davyK

I have my own webspace....I'll drop you a PM.

davyK

Enjoyed my Gigawing this evening - created some savestates for the level 5 mid boss( so I can route the section after that) , the level 5 boss, and level 6.

No missed level 5 which was satisfying. Used 2 bombs.

Some focussed practice on level 6 - it feels a lot more manageable going back to it.

davyK

Mars Matrix does seem tough - have never spent much time with it though - it got a DC port too but I've only played it in MAME. I enjoy hori/vertical shmups - there aren't that many of them around.

davyK

Have a TLB save state now. Trying to work him over with 1 life and a couple of bombs. Getting close.

The 2nd half of level 6 is my bogey at the minute.

davyK

Tch. Just haven't been putting the time in. Gaming has been MP with the daughters these last few days. TV Show King on Wii

Mario Kart on SNES.

What a game that is. I had forgot how good it is in 2P and we haven't even looked at battle mode yet.

Distracting though.....my issue with Mario Kart is I always get caught up in time trialling which scratches the same itch shmups do.

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