Retro Gaming - The Bear and Badger

Moot_Geeza

Escape wrote:

What's all this about Moot winning?! I had a day-one 32X and a day-one Mega-CD! I also had a Commodore Plus/4. And almost a Saturn, but Tekken turned my Virtua Fighter-loving head just before that Christmas. That and DOOM. I nominate one of my mates for buying a Nokia 3300.

Hey hey hey, we've all had a drink, but owning a Saturn would be the opposite of winning.

Wait.

retroking1981

Mega CD wasn't great but to be fair it had some gems.

The 32X is at the bottom of the early/mid 90s barrel along with the CD-i, Amiga CD32, Jaguar, 3DO and Virtual Boy.

Anyone who ever got one of those back in the day has nothing but my deepest sympathies.

Tbf I knew someone with a 3DO and it was bloody amazing, felt like the future in 1994, might have even been 93. A year later I couldn't give a shit about it though, despite not playing anything other than 16-Bit. I guess Bad Influence and Gamesmaster restored my faith in the status quo and built that PS hype.

Moot_Geeza

I'm enjoying Mario Tennis: Power Tour on GBA at the moment. Having played the golf one earlier in the year, I can see why they're so well loved. It's a great game of [tennis/golf] slapped onto a lite RPG with loads of enjoyable mini games. 6hrs done, just reached a new area. Very polished, plays a good game, dialogue isn't disastrous.

cockbeard

I had a 3DO and thought I was winning, I also got a Jaguar but realised pretty quick that I'd made amistake with that one and eventually traded it and a mountain bike for a playstation

retroking1981

Maybe but you ultimately lost with it and it definitely wasn't the future like I thought.

To be fair to the 3DO, out of that list of turds, it was the closest to actually being decent.

It's insane price was its biggest issue. No doubt caused by its manufacturers leasing(?) the HW and selling it for a profit.

In a way it could have been the PS.

Moot_Geeza

Need for Speed, a good SSF2 port (if you did something to the pad, apparently), Road Rash, Return Fire....I'm out.

cockbeard

The best EA sports games as well. FIFA had a full cheat menu with giant golden platyers and laser ball shots, was a right laugh

retroking1981

All great games tbf.

That pad was a dog for SF though unfortunately.

retroking1981

Road Rash was my fav, still my favourite entry in the series. I wish EA would bring it back along with the Strike games.

I was so happy when it was ported to the PS.

retroking1981

Space Hulk was another decent one.

There was also a horror FMV game on it but I can't remember what it was called, definitely wasn't Night Trap.

Blue Swirl

Andy wrote:

Out of curiosity, then, what's the biggest flop anyone's bought into?

Gizmondo.

Oh man, we could have someone topple moot from his throne.

I still rate it over the Dreamcast. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Not really.

Cheeky grey text saved you from a ban request, you little monkey, you.

Escape wrote:

What's all this about Moot winning?! I had a day-one 32X and a day-one Mega-CD!

Hmm, now we have to a have a fight: day one 32X/MegaCD vs. Gizmondo. WHICH WAS FLOPPIEST? PLACE BETS NOW.

retroking1981 wrote:

Mega CD wasn't great but to be fair it had some gems. The 32X is at the bottom of the early/mid 90s barrel along with the CD-i, Amiga CD32, Jaguar, 3DO and Virtual Boy. (...) Tbf I knew someone with a 3DO and it was bloody amazing...

The 32X had some top stuff on it, too, IIRC. The best console versions of Doom and Virtua Racing until the 'proper' 32bit machines hit the shelves, Knuckles Chaotix, and Metal Head. TBF I've never actually played a 32X, I'm just going off what Lord Karnage on YouTube says, and he seems trustworthy.

I remember seeing 3DOs and CD-is in the shops at the time and being really excited - until I tried playing them and thought "WTF is this bollocks". Don't remember ever being impressed by either of those machines. I do remember vague feelings of excitement about the CD32/32X/MegaCD/Virtual Boy, but not enough to actually plonk cash down/ask parents for them.

Just as a quick exercise, I'd have the following scale for rating the size of a flop.

Should never have left the drawing board
Phantom (arguably never did leave the drawing board, chortle etc.)
Tiger game.com
Virtual Boy

Dead on arrival
Gizmondo
CD-i
3DO
Jaguar

The brightest stars burn half as long
32X
Mega CD
Amiga CD32

Underdog/cult classics
Dreamcast
GameCube
Saturn
PlayStation Vita

A silver medal is still a medal
OG Xbox
PlayStation 3
PlayStation Portable
Nintendo 64

Top dog
PlayStation
Nintendo 3DS
Xbox 360
Super NES/Mega Drive (but which was toppest? PLAYGROUND FIGHT GO)

Set the world on fire
PlayStation 2
NES/Famicom
Nintendo DS

retroking1981

32x and Amiga CD32 relegated to the bottom imo.

Wii U to join the cult classics, and Wii set the world on fire.

retroking1981

PS3 outsold the 360 so surely both deserve top dog status like the 16-Bits?

edit: sod it, I'll do mine a little later.

[Deleted User]

Depends how you quantify success.

retroking1981

I get the whole market share swing side of it but both selling 85M+ puts them in the success bracket for me.

Blue Swirl

retroking1981 wrote:

32x and Amiga CD32 relegated to the bottom imo. Wii U to join the cult classics, and Wii set the world on fire.

retroking1981 wrote:

PS3 outsold the 360 so surely both deserve top dog status like the 16-Bits? edit: sod it, I'll do mine a little later.

I just bashed it out as a stream of consciousness - definitely doesn't take into account sales figures or anything concrete. So yeah, you're right - things could probably move around, and there's definitely other systems that could go into each category. I didn't realise PS3 had outsold 360, but I'd still rate 360 as a (slightly) bigger success than PS3 - my gut feeling is that 360 was a success from the start (RRoD aside), while the PS3 was a success eventually. And it really did feel at times like Sony didn't want the PS3 to take off.

Blue Swirl

Thinking about it, I can't believe I missed Wii and Wii U in the categories that retroking mentioned.

retroking1981

Set the world on fire
Atari 2600
Nintendo Entertainment System
Nintendo Game Boy/Color
PlayStation
PlayStation 2
Nintendo DS
Nintendo Wii

Top dog's
Sega Mega Drive
Super Nintendo Entertainment System
XBox 360
PlayStation 3

Solid but not quite greatness
Sega Master System
Nintendo 64
Nintendo Game Boy Advance
Nintendo GameCube
XBox
PlayStation Portable

Underdog/cult classics
PC Engine
Neo-Geo/CD
Sega Game Gear
Sega Saturn
Sega Dreamcast
Wonderswan
Neo-Geo Pocket
Nintendo Wii U

A bit of a stinker
Atari 7800
Atari Lynx
Sega Mega CD
3DO
Atari Jaguar
Amiga CD32

Should never have left the drawing board
Atari 5200
Amstrad GX4000
Commodore 64GS
Phillips CD-i
Nintendo Virtual Boy
Sega 32X
Nintendo 64DD
Atari Jaguar CD

Nice idea btw Swirl

Anyway to answer this question...

Blue Swirl wrote:

Out of curiosity, then, what's the biggest flop anyone's bought into? I have a history of picking the losing horse (Dreamcast over PS2, Neo Geo Pocket over GBC), and was even meant to get a Saturn for Christmas until my parents saw the PlayStation was cheaper. But I've never taken the plunge on something that really tanked, like a Jaguar or 3DO.

For me its Dreamcast and Wii U.

I think anything in that underdog or below category definitely qualifies and a bit of a flop. Plenty of people love those machines but if they were the only consoles you owned that gen you were definitely missing out.

And if you bought into something that shouldn't have left the drawing board you have my deepest sympathies, hence my moot wins statement, although escape had a stinker to boot.

Blue Swirl

Ooh, good list. I reckon we need an even lower category for Amstrad GX4000, though. It'd go in the same level as Konix Multisystem and Mattel HyperScan.

Escape

I loved my 32X for its DOOM port until I had the PlayStation version (which is still my favourite). The GX4000 depends on whether you could finish the first level of Navy SEALs. Hardcore machine, that.

The 3DO suffered in the same way as the Neo Geo, where it was only really impressive for a couple of years, and didn't have the breadth of other consoles by a long shot. If I'd been a rich kid it would've been a complementary, secondary console at best. The SNES might've lacked its muscle, but it gave the Geo a hiding. Even in its own fightmen yard, the later versions of Street Fighter II outclassed it.

I never saw the hype, really. I felt the same way about the PC Engine, and JAMMA boards were always of dated, average games.

Moot_Geeza

Blue Swirl wrote:

The 32X had some top stuff on it, too, IIRC. The best console versions of Doom and Virtua Racing until the 'proper' 32bit machines hit the shelves, Knuckles Chaotix, and Metal Head. TBF I've never actually played a 32X, I'm just going off what Lord Karnage on YouTube says, and he seems trustworthy.

My take on the games mentioned:

Doom was pared back but smooth, and a genuine leap from anything I'd been playing at the time. I can't think of a better home version on Virtua Racing on any console. Chaotix didn't work, I only played it recently but it's not particularly good. Metal Head was a huge technical leap for a MD gamer and I gladly suffered its shortcomings, but it's almost unplayable today.

Star Wars Arcade was the only other game I owned. It's another one that's probably aged terribly but I toughed it out for the polygons.

Blue Swirl

Mentioning Neo Geo and 3DO in the same breath is a crime worthy of death. Just fyi.

I see what you mean, but I'd argue the Neo Geo produced stellar titles for a long time. It may have lacked the 3D hardware to stay relevant after the advent of PlayStation, but the pixel art was always top work - and you can see it getting better. Compare Samurai Spirits V to the launch games. Its night and day.

JonB

Neo Geo was too late and too expensive.

In the late 80s, having arcade games in the home seemed like the Holy Grail. But the MD and SNES showed that dedicated console gaming could offer so much more and they delivered solid arcade ports.

hunk

The SNK vs Capcom 90's rivalry produced some of the finest 2d arcade games ever produced. Streetfighter2, KoF, SF3, Metal Slug, SFAlpha, Darkstalkers, LastBlade, Samurai Shodown. The list goes on and on.

Cult classics indeed.

[Deleted User]

Going back to PS3/360, the 360 was more interesting to me at the time. They’re both still hooked up, but the 360is in the bedroom, while the PS3 is under the telly in the living room, and gets more use.

wonderbanana

retroking1981 wrote:

Set the world on fire
Atari 2600
Nintendo Entertainment System
Nintendo Game Boy/Color
PlayStation
PlayStation 2
Nintendo DS
Nintendo Wii

Top dog's
Sega Mega Drive
Super Nintendo Entertainment System
XBox 360
PlayStation 3

Solid but not quite greatness
Sega Master System
Nintendo 64
Nintendo Game Boy Advance
Nintendo GameCube
XBox
PlayStation Portable

Underdog/cult classics
PC Engine
Neo-Geo/CD
Sega Game Gear
Sega Saturn
Sega Dreamcast
Wonderswan
Neo-Geo Pocket
Nintendo Wii U

A bit of a stinker
Atari 7800
Atari Lynx
Sega Mega CD
3DO
Atari Jaguar
Amiga CD32

Should never have left the drawing board
Atari 5200
Amstrad GX4000
Commodore 64GS
Phillips CD-i
Nintendo Virtual Boy
Sega 32X
Nintendo 64DD
Atari Jaguar CD

Nice idea btw Swirl

Anyway to answer this question...

Blue Swirl wrote:

Out of curiosity, then, what's the biggest flop anyone's bought into? I have a history of picking the losing horse (Dreamcast over PS2, Neo Geo Pocket over GBC), and was even meant to get a Saturn for Christmas until my parents saw the PlayStation was cheaper. But I've never taken the plunge on something that really tanked, like a Jaguar or 3DO.

For me its Dreamcast and Wii U.

I think anything in that underdog or below category definitely qualifies and a bit of a flop. Plenty of people love those machines but if they were the only consoles you owned that gen you were definitely missing out.

And if you bought into something that shouldn't have left the drawing board you have my deepest sympathies, hence my moot wins statement, although escape had a stinker to boot.

GBA was a huge success, definately a top dog and shouldnt be in the same catergory as the PSP.

retroking1981

The PSP sold more though, I also played it much more.

To each their own but for me they're about on par with each other.

A lot of the ones I listed as solid could be promoted/relegated quite easily tbf, it's quite a subjective bunch.

If anything I should probably put them both in with the top dogs.

edit: They really should be top dogs thinking about it. If I did it's the consoles left in that group that are most commonly debated as being a success or not. There's not much debate outside of those as to what succeed or flopped, from a sales perspective that is.

wonderbanana

Most lists have the GBA above the PSP sales wise though fair play, it sold a lot more than I realised.

Interesting that in NA GBA sold double that of PSP.

I'd still rank it way above the PSP, I remember the clamour over here for the GBA was huge. It was hard to buy games on eBay as there were so many fakes, people went nuts for it. I don't remember any real hype for PSP at all.

Still, as above, genuinely surprised at the PSP numbers, would never have thought that at all. Makes the Vita's performance even more baffling.

cockbeard

Swap 3DO with either 32x, drop CD32 to the bottom and push Mega CD into Cult imo and all that

edit: @swirly, didn't see retro list when typing

poprock

The PSP was an amazing piece of kit. Probably the most impressed I’ve ever been by a piece of hardware. I ended up completely hooked on the Wipeout ports for it though, and hardly bought any other games.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories