Creating a website - The Bear and Badger

AJ

beano wrote:

One line CSS doesn't make me happy. Mixed elements don't either. Keep it all together.

Mixed elements?

I like to separate everything out into loads of different files for different parts of the layout, makes finding things and reusing code easier.

beano

Mixed as in "[class] p]" at the top and then the same class "h1" on the bottom. Prefer to name the id or class and all the childs in one setting like boris does.

AJ

Ah, gotcha. Beyond the separation into files for different bits, I tend to just throw stuff in wherever I am at the time and use the outline to find particular bits. I always start with the intention of having some kind of structure, and even put section headings in comments, but it tends to all go to shit after a couple of revisions.

AJ

Live CSS:

b0r1s

AJ wrote:

Woah, I didn't know you could nest selectors like that.

You can only do that in SASS - http://sass-lang.com

The SASS compiler then outputs the CSS.

Another thing is that I try to avoid is using the name of the main outer element, e.g the DIV or the SECTION element. This is so that if I want to change what element to use in HTML I can change it without updating the CSS.

For example

<div class="test">

I'd just do the CSS as

.test

not

div.test

That way I could choose to change it to something else.

AJ

I finally ordered a new laptop yesterday. Since it's Windows, I'm not going to be able to use a lot of the same tools as I have been for the last few years. Before I go off evaluating the current state of things, I thought I'd ask if anyone's got recommendations of things worth looking at. What I'm after are:

*AMP stack control panel (if it comes with an installer/updater, so I don't have to manage them myself, so much the better)
MySQL client (support for other DBs is a bonus but in no way necessary)
Shell interface (let's face it, the built in Windows terminal is balls)
Developer's text editor
Log file viewer
SFTP etc. GUI

I'll probably stick with Eclipse for now, 'cause of plugins for frameworks I use, but hearing what people like in other ones might convince me otherwise.

Thanks.

beano

I keep portable app versions of everything on a USB stick- have a look at http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html

I tend to keep two flavours of everything where needed.

It's a 16gig stick so carries programmers notepad, notepad++, notpad2, eclipse is installed on the desktop I am using though.

A quality little program I have on there too is mRemote http://www.mremoteng.org/, again this is in addition to putty.

Given the nature of what's on the usb stick it is of course encrypted with truecrypt.

I'm still dealing with vim, notepad2, or a proprietary log file viewer depending on what logs I am looking at.

AJ

I used to have a portable apps stick, but found I don't use it any more. I'll add Programmer's Notepad and Notepad2 to my list, though, thanks. Same for mRemote.

XAMPP is already in the running, but looks to be loosing to WampServer at the moment.

beano

You can run xampp on a USB stick, not sure about wamp?

AJ

No idea. I don't need to run it on a USB stick, though.

Facewon

Twitter embeds in a mailchimp newsletter. html and such, what am I missing?

I am going to be having semi-regular Tumblr posts, with a round up of twitter posts and intasgram pics and other such things. Text etc, I would like to basically mirror that in a mailchimp newsletter. (Or vice versa, which ever works better) Or, point me to a better newsletter option.

AJ

AFAIK, you can't do actual embeds in email, you'd have to copy the content.

Facewon

Interesting. tbh, that may make life easier.

Brooks

Got my head around Muse fairly quickly because it's so similar to InDesign, but I've a feeling Macaw will be more my bag. Not that I need to build any websites but it's nice to be on the level with new tools.

mk64

my site is coming along ok

b0r1s

Any dev stuff you can show?

mk64

shortly yes

mk64

the developers have asked me what functionality I want to have in my admin panel.. are there typically things which apply to all websites which admin should want to view/see/edit?

dynamiteReady

Does your site look like any of these?*

http://mentalfloss.com/article/53792/17-ancient-abandoned-websites-still-work

*Just kidding... Wanted a reason to post the link.

beano

I was all over spacejam.

mk, how about creating users and access control? Adding pages etc...have a think but really they should be able to tell you what you need but be sure to mention anything you thinks missing.

b0r1s

It's a bit weird they're asking you tbf. Surely you want to be able to change as much of the content as possible but not touch anything functional or layout based.

AJ

Yeah, but if they're trying to limit cost, that's not always practical.

mk64

i asked for everything and they seem to be giving me everything

dynamiteReady

How are you getting on with the site, MK? I've been working with similar stuff recently, so did wonder. Also, has anyone else got anything else interested going on?

Recently, I've been playing about with CORS servers, and CI & deployment (mostly for that game project I keep bugging you all to play... Please try it out if you haven't already - http://www.raskie.com/octjective-v0-2-1.zip), amongst other things.

I've also signed up here...

https://www.mapbox.com/

The API appears to be cleaner than Google Maps, but I've only just started looking at it... Anyone else dicking about with anything fresh/new/interesting/badass?

mk64

yes its going well. Almost ready to go live

dynamiteReady

For those of you doing any web work, particularly front end, what's the oldest browser you, or your company bother supporting?

b0r1s

IE 8, generally work to the last couple versions of most other browsers (Safari, Chrome, Firefox) use Browserstack to test all.

IE 7 is so low now % wise - about 2% I think at my last check.

But it comes down to the client tbf. I had a client who was adamant they wanted blackberry support even though it was 0.6% of their monthly traffic. As they were corporate financial they felt there was still value in this.

Check out clients stats, have the conversation with them, but also bear in mind that supporting older browsers can significantly increase front end dev time, and cost. You have to ask the question, is it worth it?

AJ

IE8 if the client asks for it, IE9 when they don't.

Personally, I think we should be writing sites that work as far back as Lynx, but apparently that's too complicated for some people.

dynamiteReady

AJ wrote:

IE8 if the client asks for it, IE9 when they don't. Personally, I think we should be writing sites that work as far back as Lynx, but apparently that's too complicated for some people.

Are you serious? Or just playing to your avatar?

I'm currently trying to get my head around some of the modern trends. Especially the almost 50-50 split on 'responsive*' design versus user agent sniffing and mobile versions of websites.

The way it looks to me, is that the large tech companies with complicated client facing application or sites will generally opt for user agent sniffing, and separate designs. While smaller content based sites (i.e. Magazines) generally opt for responsive designs. Though there are plenty of notable exceptions to both rules.

Btw, have you seen Destructoid's mobile site recently? They've opted for user agent sniffing... It's fucking pony.

*I fucking hate that term.

AJ

I'm serious, if the page is workable as text, more indexing things and screen readers can read it without trouble

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