Creating a website - The Bear and Badger

b0r1s

I personally think mobile specific sites have had their time. All newer web apps are being rewritten in HTML5 and some kind of front end JS framework (ember, angular etc), or if companies need more power they are going the iOS/Android route, supported by a lighter, responsive web offering.

Not sure what the issue is with the term responsive. I think it adequately describes the process of a website responding (in a range of ways) to the device that is viewing the site.

dynamiteReady

An SEO question...

What's Google's current policy on hidden content? Will I get penalised for using "display: none;" before a page loads? There are plenty of single page apps about these days, including Gmail.

Surely Google can't strike them all off?

b0r1s

Depends on intent. If you pack that hidden content with most of your copy and hope to rank for it then you aren't going to do too well. If it's just an image gallery or something then not much of an issue.

dynamiteReady

Interesting... How does the Google spider handles A/B tests then? Loads of places do that, and still top the listings. I also wonder what screen readers do with hidden content too...

I think in my case though, there'll be no problem with me hiding the content and animating it.

b0r1s

If you're gonna split test then use Google Content Experiements it's part of analytics.

As for SEO it's all about content. Split testing shouldn't affect that. You should still be showing your copy as people come to a site to read info. Google will promote sites that provide that info. If you hide it by default then you are saying that content has less value than some pretty slidey JS thing you have going on. Or a big banner that site owners love so much.

Also your entry via Google may not need to come from this page but could come through another article.

For screen readers you'll want to look at visibility settings rather than display.

SonicBoomBoy

Anyone recommend a free to use HTML editor? Have used context in the past but heard its outdated.

beano

I think this covers all the fancy stuff that's currently available.

http://www.silex.me/

I've never used it though I know it came from folks who were instrumental in HTML5 launch and dissemination- text books etc.

SonicBoomBoy

Thanks mate. Shall have a look.

Hodge360

This may or may not be the place to ask but are there any good examples of companies that provide complete solutions to adding an online store to your own site?

b0r1s

A simple, but powerful solution is business catalyst though you do have to pay monthly for it. I've not used it for a while, but it's owned by Adobe now so guessing its popular.

dynamiteReady

SonicBoomBoy wrote:

Anyone recommend a free to use HTML editor? Have used context in the past but heard its outdated.

This might well be worth a look for certain projects, and possibly even larger ones:

http://www.google.co.uk/webdesigner/

beano

Careful with that, as it pushes lots of chrome only features...does look good though.

dynamiteReady

beano wrote:

Careful with that, as it pushes lots of chrome only features...does look good though.

Yeah... That's partly why I dropped it, but as an editor, it's ok. And I really hope the timeline stuff becomes popular again, because hand coding animation is a PITA. No matter how much you learn about it.

AJ

SonicBoomBoy wrote:

Anyone recommend a free to use HTML editor? Have used context in the past but heard its outdated.

I use NetBeans. It's free, but it's a professional app, so might not be what you're looking for.

Anyway, it's not the HTML you want to be worrying about; that's the easy bit. It's the CSS that's going to be a bastard.

Hodge360 wrote:

This may or may not be the place to ask but are there any good examples of companies that provide complete solutions to adding an online store to your own site?

At work, we use Shopify when clients want a store. I've not looked into alternatives myself, but it seems okay.

Hodge360

Cheers Boris and AJ. Just want to see what's available out there before I spout on about how things should work.

AJ

What are you doing? Chances are, a lot of the code you want is probably already written, maybe even available as a service.

Hodge360

Trying to give the best suggestions for how to take a company from the 80s into the present!

AJ

Yeah, you probably want to avoid writing much, if any, code, then (I develop websites for a living and would do the same in that situation). Getting another company, who specialise in these things, to sort it out for you is the best option, but there'll be off-the-shelf solutions if you don't have the budget for that.

Hodge360

Unfortunately we may be stuck with option three,get in house specialists to develop the system to our own spec. for various reasons. This generally falls on it's arse because the people calling the shots neither work where it's needed nor in the IT department.

b0r1s

Just make sure responsive is front of mind. Not sure what you are selling, but e-commerce is all about mobile and tablet, as that is where the bulk of consumer sales come from.

So a site that can scale from mobile to tablet to desktop is a must. Don't get sold on a separate mobile site, they only work for specific niche markets or for companies with a fixed understanding of their user base (e.g. a company extranet could be optimised to work with a particular mobile).

Not sure how much you know, or need to know, but bone up on Media Queries and Responsive Web Design

Examples: http://mediaqueri.es

Background: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/hh653584.aspx

A good book: http://www.abookapart.com/products/responsive-web-design

Hodge360

I'd imagine nearly all of our site visits are desktop based and wasn't surprised when I just visited and saw no adapting to my mobile browser. What concerned me though was reading through a description followed by "to find out more,click on the tab to the left"!! Surely even this is old fashioned? I'd expect a click here link.
Anyway,I'll have a read through those and maybe a responsive site could be useful as there are a lot of younger people purchasing from us and a more attractive site might improve their sales.

b0r1s

Hodge360 wrote:

I'd imagine nearly all of our site visits are desktop based and wasn't surprised when I just visited and saw no adapting to my mobile browser. What concerned me though was reading through a description followed by "to find out more,click on the tab to the left"!! Surely even this is old fashioned? I'd expect a click here link. Anyway,I'll have a read through those and maybe a responsive site could be useful as there are a lot of younger people purchasing from us and a more attractive site might improve their sales.

It's not just younger people :-)

That's a common misconception, as for audience if you have Google Analytics you can check the percentage of mobile visitors and what devices.

Also bear in mind if a site isn't mobile friendly then Google can give you a lower search engine ranking when someone searches on a mobile device, which would shift the weight of your visits to desktop only anyway. The fact is, if you are selling to the general public, and you want to sell more, responsive is the way forwards.

And before you get into the design/build site, ensure you go through a usability study/information architecture stage. Depending on the client I tend to wireframe at least mobile and desktop, occasionally tablet too depending on how much a design may change from device to device. Software you can use for this is something like Balsamiq. It will save a lot of time in the long run as you can test and change wireframes much easier than designs or HTML. Again, not trying to tell you how to suck eggs.

Hodge360

No,I'm grateful for all your input. I've been a bit vague about the business but should really have given some info about myself here.
I'm merely a monkey in the system that's involved with production,packaging,taking and prepping orders and suchlike. It's mainly my years as a chef before that make me focus on improving systems and value for money. This is helped by our new manager who's all about LEAN systems and welcomes suggestions but he seems to be taking a lot of them on board and I'm trying to do some research to make sure I'm giving the best informed opinion I can. I can only offer suggestions though and won't be involved in the planning/development but feel obliged to make the best for both the employer and employees.
Having said all that I am keenly interested in how things work and even though my HTML/CSS experience only goes as far as the course on Codecademy, I have been reading your posts&links and understanding what's going on!
So basically,suggest away and don't assume any knowledge on my part. Thanks for your help and if you do think you've a suggestion on how to suck eggs,feel free to throw that in.

Hodge360

Wouldn't know if we have Analytics. Doubt we'd be too worried at Google rankings as we are very specific and unique in what we do so finding us wouldn't be hard if you wanted to.
Regarding increasing sales,I'm not sure if that would be a main focus but it'd certainly be helped by implementing an online ordering system instead of an archaic telephone/post system.

Actually,writing that last sentence makes me think I may be putting the cart before the horse really. I've started out trying to promote an online store to my boss and here I am worrying about how it should look!! What I'm really looking for are examples of people selling systems that I can show the boss and say:we need something like this!!

Sorry,gel I've wasted your time now.

AJ

Wait... you've got internal specialists and you're asking about an HTML editor? Something's not right there...

Hodge360

You have NO IDEA!!!!
Anyway,I kinda got caught up in the whole web design side of it. What I'm really looking for is example of webstore solutions out there so I can say "Look at these,why can't we aim for this kind of system?".
I seriously doubt they'd take on a third party system but it'd be a good indicator of how the real world works. Surely paypal or google checkout or someone offers solutions adaptable to various vendors where they can feel in control and decide what kind of reports etc they receive and how an order is processed or am I dreaming too much?

b0r1s

Best third party solution is magento. Very powerful can do pretty much anything but needs developers to get the most out of it.

Brooks

Why isn't everyone just using Squarespace.

AJ

Hosting your own store is a whole pile of headaches, I'd seriously avoid it if you can.

b0r1s wrote:

Best third party solution is magento. Very powerful can do pretty much anything but needs developers to get the most out of it.

Like I said, I've never looked into these things properly, but I've been told in no uncertain terms that Megento is in no way worth the money.

Hodge360

Out of interest,if you had to set up your own. How long (roughly) should it take to get up and running? I know that's vague and depends on a lot of variables but some sort of guesstimate would be interesting.

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