Current Affairs - The Bear and Badger

Lord_Griff

I think the decision was the correct one given the evidence presented. The gun culture in the US is legitimately nuts. So when you get a bipolar child rapist, just released from prison, saying he is going to kill you, and at some point in the night he chases you and grabs your gun, well, what are you gonna do? The next lad with an unregistered glock, films you as you say you are going to the police. People start to chase and assault you, one with a skateboard. The second aiming at your head with a gun.

The real issue here, I think, is about the reporting. The divisive nature of it. The subterfuge and obfuscation. It isn't healthy. Also, I can't fathom why bicep guy hasn't been pulled up for lying to the police about his gun, testifying in court that he was aiming at the kid but on a later interview with CNN contradicts it and nobody says a thing.The other issue is that you are never going to rock the Yanks' relationship with firearms.

GooberTheHat

They key thing here is that America is bat shit mental and fully institutionally racist.

JonB

Lord_Griff wrote:

I think the decision was the correct one given the evidence presented. The gun culture in the US is legitimately nuts. So when you get a bipolar child rapist, just released from prison, saying he is going to kill you, and at some point in the night he chases you and grabs your gun, well, what are you gonna do? The next lad with an unregistered glock, films you as you say you are going to the police. People start to chase and assault you, one with a skateboard. The second aiming at your head with a gun.

Interesting place to start the story.

Lord_Griff

The presented evidence?

Lord_Griff

I think the prosecutions opening statement said they would show the lad chasing the guy he shot. The video they proceeded to show was exactly the opposite. Very strange.

I couldn't fathom how the prosecutor can't get into trouble for lying.

Diluted Dante

Lord_Griff wrote:

I think the decision was the correct one given the evidence presented. The gun culture in the US is legitimately nuts. So when you get a bipolar child rapist, just released from prison, saying he is going to kill you, and at some point in the night he chases you and grabs your gun, well, what are you gonna do? The next lad with an unregistered glock, films you as you say you are going to the police. People start to chase and assault you, one with a skateboard. The second aiming at your head with a gun. The real issue here, I think, is about the reporting. The divisive nature of it. The subterfuge and obfuscation. It isn't healthy. Also, I can't fathom why bicep guy hasn't been pulled up for lying to the police about his gun, testifying in court that he was aiming at the kid but on a later interview with CNN contradicts it and nobody says a thing.The other issue is that you are never going to rock the Yanks' relationship with firearms.

The irony here is off the charts.

Armitage_Shankburn

Lord_Griff wrote:

The presented evidence?

The only evidence that the guy said he was gonna get him was given at trial by Rittenhouse, presumably having watched footage. He wasn't in that footage, he wasn't being threatened. But it made his evidence plausible, and hard to deny. All the prosecutor could say was, such a shame there was no footage.

There is no evidence that a gun was pointed at him by the second victim,**who certainly had time to aim, but tried to disarm Rittenhouse.

I'm sad, I watched the trial. Well, hours of it anyway. Prosecution and defense.

But I think this verdict was predictable. He didn't aim, but the guy had a gun. Nutcase did charge. And someone did throw a skateboard at him. The first and last of those only did this because this guy actually shot and killed someone, but hey ho. Once you allow guns on the street, this is what happens - anarchy.

** At the point at which the aiming happened, in cross the victim who survived admitted pointing his gun earlier in the chase, fearing for his life. But he wasn't aiming later and was trying to disarm. Unlike this shitbag Rittenhouse, that guy was an actual medic who lacked the will to shoot and kill someone. And a real shame that he did, too.

Armitage_Shankburn

Let's be clear about one thing. That kid went to Kenosha to shoot people, and he did.

Diluted Dante

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

Once you allow guns on the street, this is what happens - anarchy.

Perhaps America will make changes to their gun laws so something like this can't happen again.

Why are you laughing?

Lord_Griff

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

Lord_Griff wrote:

The presented evidence?

The only evidence that the guy said he was gonna get him was given at trial by Rittenhouse, presumably having watched footage. He wasn't in that footage, he wasn't being threatened. But it made his evidence plausible, and hard to deny. All the prosecutor could say was, such a shame there was no footage.

There is no evidence that a gun was pointed at him by the second victim, who certainly had time to aim, but tried to disarm Rittenhouse.

I'm sad, I watched the trial. Well, hours of it anyway. Prosecution and defense.

But I think this verdict was predictable. He didn't aim, but the guy had a gun. Nutcase did charge. And someone did throw a skateboard at him. The first and last of those only did this because this guy actually shot and killed someone, but hey ho. Once you allow guns on the street, this is what happens - anarchy.

The guy testified he pointed his gun at the kid's head.

Armitage_Shankburn

You missed an edit. And I think if you knew the facts you would realise how ridiculous it is to present the matter as you did

Lord_Griff

Eh?, have I been... manipulated. Scheisser.

GooberTheHat

Self defense, self defense.

Lord_Griff

Ah your edit? Didn't he try to disarm him with a gun in one hand and his phone in the other, as the video footage showed.

Lord_Griff

this

Diluted Dante

Lord_Griff wrote:

Ah your edit? Didn't he try to disarm him with a gun in one hand and his phone in the other, as the video footage showed.

No, the second person that he murdered is the one with the skateboard, a terrifying weapon when you only have an assault rifle.

The person with the handgun never gets to him, and in fact backs away.

LivDiv

I've not consumed nearly enough of this to form an opinion on the verdict.

It certainly feels like an inevitably that something like this was going to happen though. If not this kid then someone else.
America needs to have a long think about how this all came to pass. It won't of course.

Armitage_Shankburn

Lord_Griff wrote:

this

He wasn't pointing his gun at him in any of that footage (assuming it was adduced at trial, which has to be safe) - and if he did, I think even you and I know how to point a gun.

Spoiler:

Armitage_Shankburn

Diluted Dante wrote:

Lord_Griff wrote:

Ah your edit? Didn't he try to disarm him with a gun in one hand and his phone in the other, as the video footage showed.

No, the second person that he murdered is the one with the skateboard, a terrifying weapon when you only have an assault rifle.

The person with the handgun never gets to him, and in fact backs away.

He backs away when the shooting starts, yes. It's all quick but at trial they showed frame by frame. Defense didn't really resist this, they did not even try to establish he was pointing a gun, though it helped he admitted he had before (they didn't establish Rittenhouse saw that, he just said, I felt unsafe, I thought I would get shot Yadda Yadda).

You just get the guy to say he felt unsafe, had to shoot. It's subjective belief that was reasonable in the circumstances. They did enough at trial to get that

Armitage_Shankburn

https://twitter.com/EdgeofSports/status/1461810695322976262?s=20

mistercrayon

The level of proof needed convict should be high imo so the defence just needs enough seeds to sow the big enough doubt. The prosecutor didn’t really have a chance imo how much evidence and testimony was available of what seems like an utter chaos.

acemuzzy

I just look at the purposes of punishment (deterrence, protection, retribution, reparation, reformation), and they all feel relevant here, and none have been given. He's walking away with no punishment, even as a hero to some. The dead people are pretty good evidence of shit having gone wrong.

hunk

Diluted Dante wrote:

Once you allow guns on the street, this is what happens - anarchy.

Perhaps America will make changes to their gun laws so something like this can't happen again. Why are you laughing?

A mass shooting with fatalaties at a kindergarten couldn't change US gun laws. Not holding my breath here. This is what you get when you allow armed civilian militias in the streets during protests.

b0r1s

I can only assume Griff is being ironic in his post above.

Cos obviously the real issue is reporting. Damn you MSM.

Brooks

I think you would need a spectacular level of martial chaos, aftermath and reconstruction over some decades to get the Yanks to seriously prohibit firearms. Something profoundly transformational.

LivDiv

Its not really even the laws that are the primary issue. Its the cult of guns.
Those laws aren't going to change while the cult exists and if the cult went away they probably wouldn't need to.

djchump

The laws would change super quick if all black people armed and “protected” themselves to the extent the laws allowed the confederate-waving whites. Worked in California when the Black Panthers did it.

dynamiteReady

I woke up this morning likening Rittenhouse to Breivik, in all but the outcome and, perhaps, strength of will.

And now I can't shake that thought.

LivDiv

I think he is quite different.
Breivik was undoubtedly calculated in his plot to kill.
Rittenhouse was caught up in a moment even if his intention was indeed to kill.

I dont remember the leader of Norway effectively egging on Breivik, nor the Norwegian police aiding him or influential groups of older adults encouraging him. A constitution that can be read that these actions are patriotic. A media demanding nightly that people take up their civic duty to head to the streets armed. Guilty or not Rittenhouse's actions were very much a construct of his society at the time.

LivDiv

Breivik has also openly owned his actions and the political nature of them.

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