Yossarian wrote:

davyK wrote:

Listening to Edwina Curry on BBC-NI this morning (we get Stephen Nolan 9-10:30, Mon-Fri), talking about the Universal Credit cap etc.  Still has that Tory belief that people are workshy and need "encouraged" to get out of the house and find work.

Fuck. Me.

To be honest, I think that there may be some truth to this. Most jobs these days are shit and soul destroying. If I didn’t have to worry about paying rent and bills, I doubt I’d do them.

That truth I think is probably applicable to such a minor fraction of UC claimants as to be laughable.

Also, if you're already underemployed (i.e. not receiving enough hours to meet costs of living) then picking up extra hours isn't as easy as all that. You could get another job for a few hours a week but better hope that transport doesn't cost you all your wages. And if you're wandering into unsociable hours, that your kids other responsibilities are taken care of and that you work in a safe area.

Basically, these types of Tory statement just smack of lives untroubled by a lack of money. Their money reproduce like rabbits via investment portfolios. Normal money that most of us have access to is just good for spending.

It is grim to think that the jobs are that bad.  I could believe it too. zero hour "contracts" are almost akin to people turning up at Depression era docks for a day's work.

If only there was a labour movement for people who work to join together for bargaining power.

erm...

Always thought you were meant to get more right wing as you get older but I feel the opposite as I close in on 50.  Seeing 20 somethings zooming about delivering stuff on zero hour contracts is soul destroying - is that really the best we can offer this generation (rhetorical question).
Fucking hated the "well, in my day" shite when I was younger and always will.
Brexit, ruined environment and zero hours contract yet my generation still have the check to portray younger people as workshy and ungrateful.
<rant over>

AndCallMeCharlie wrote:

Always thought you were meant to get more right wing as you get older but I feel the opposite as I close in on 50.  Seeing 20 somethings zooming about delivering stuff on zero hour contracts is soul destroying - is that really the best we can offer this generation (rhetorical question). Fucking hated the "well, in my day" shite when I was younger and always will. Brexit, ruined environment and zero hours contract yet my generation still have the check to portray younger people as workshy and ungrateful.

We definitely had it easier. No question of that. My year in university was the last to get the full grant. House prices were lower (in relation to income) and while borrowing wasn't as cheap, it was available.  It's a hard stony road now, especially if your family can't give you a helping hand. I'm from a humble background but my parents supported me and gave me board as long as I paid a few quid in every week.

I graduated in '92 in the middle of a recession and it took a while to get a job (ok - 6 months) while I did part time work in a pub and stayed at home. I remember writing to 200 employers in GB looking for a software dev job. Got 100 "we aren't hiring" letters back, 98 ignores and got two interviews. My 2nd interview was the job I got.  I never lost hope though - it was a different time. There weren't any lack of opportunities in other areas - I just hung out for the job I wanted as I could get by while I lived at home. Living in a small city helped me too because travel wasn't an issue.

Within a year of starting perm full time work (at 25) I started house hunting. There simply wasn't any idea of not being able to do that because of house prices which - esp in pre-ceasefire Belfast - were low. So my modest pay still gave me access to some properties.

More class work from the unity candidate there.

Anyone here still backing Keith?

Do you actually believe he's capable of defeating the Tories, given that his focus seems to be on defeating other secions of his own party?

Yossarian wrote:

I think he’s more capable of defeating the Tories than any of the other alternatives.

Yet another illustration of why indyref 2 can’t come soon enough

AndCallMeCharlie wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

I think he’s more capable of defeating the Tories than any of the other alternatives.

Yet another illustration of why indyref 2 can’t come soon enough

He may be pushed into a more sensible position on PR at least. That could change the entire electoral landscape.

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/calls-for-labour-to-back-reform-grow-as-members-back-pr-in-record-numbers/

Surely the electioral college change would need to be backed by members?

MattyJ wrote:

I thought there were countries testing everyone having universal basic income, and that it didn't make people want to work less but actually the opposite

All I know is that there's a mountainous difference between working at a McDonald's to go home and freeze in your slumlord flat in winter, and going home to comfortable warmth with those wages all yours to spend on whatever you want as a reward for your work.

But is that UBI, or is it undoing capitalism to make living as affordable as it should be...

AndCallMeCharlie wrote:

Fucking hated the "well, in my day" shite when I was younger and always will.

In my day you could go to university for free and get things like paid apprenticeships in garages, going on to a x4 mortgage a few years later. But I didn't catch the boat, which has well and truly Gendried.

Starmer's a backdoor Tory, the worst kind. If he wins from a seriously low turnout it won't help us — the die will've been cast. There'd be loads of ‘We must listen and work towards building blah-blah’ from their MPs, but we'd have installed a Cameron as the Overton's leftwing rep henceforth.

The best possible outcome is for the most ‘moderate’ Tory to replace Johnson for the GE, and for them to beat Starmer by the smallest margin with both doing terrible numbers. There's no other situation in which we can effectively pressure Labour back to their roots. A win for them is a rightwing mandate at this point, and I say it's foolish to think low numbers would mitigate that.

Starmer's already rowed back on so many pledges he used to get himself elected. Nothing but a Trojan horse.

Yes but The Mail haven't had to write opinion pieces against it recently. That'll swing the pendulum back against it pretty swiftly I'm sure. Or Murdoch will simply ring up Starmer and tell him "no".

Our public servants ruling class, ladies and gentlemen:

I'm assuming it comes with the position, and is used for official events. I'm probably wrong but I hope not.

Well I hope you've all read Starmer's "essay" thing. It's a depressing read: not just from the wooly centrism it espouses, but the wooliness itself: an entire flock's worth of soundbites and aspirational phrases, not much better than the kind of saccharine slogan found in a suburban picture frame. No substance. No plans: "we'll fix inequality, by working hard". It's an indictment both of Starmer and his team, and the general electorate who've allowed themselves to be viewed as people who would accept this shite as meaningful.

I had little faith remaining in Starmer as a worthy Laboue leader, now it has finally evaporated. Once his leadership election changes get voted against during the conference, I hope he resigns in shame, even though I'm well aware of the Labour narrative which will follow and probably torpedo any GE chances for another round.