The British Politics Thread - The Bear and Badger

mistercrayon

The last hope of what this Labour Party will stand for is the general election.

Johnson will be toast by then and the conservatives will be dead at the next election given how they are cocking everything up now.

Diluted Dante

LivDiv wrote:

What is the purpose of this essay?

That's what everyone asked when they annouced he was doing it. After reading it, the question was still there.

Diluted Dante

mistercrayon wrote:

The last hope of what this Labour Party will stand for is the general election. Johnson will be toast by then and the conservatives will be dead at the next election given how they are cocking everything up now.

Con (+5)

Funkstain

Diluted Dante wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

What is the purpose of this essay?

That's what everyone asked when they annouced he was doing it. After reading it, the question was still there.

if it was "get me to make a fool of myself on a private forum" then job done, Starmer. Well played!

mistercrayon

Diluted Dante wrote:

mistercrayon wrote:

The last hope of what this Labour Party will stand for is the general election. Johnson will be toast by then and the conservatives will be dead at the next election given how they are cocking everything up now.

Con (+5)

I think increased tax+gas prices+no food+ no easy trade deals to boast about+ sleaze/deals for the boys

Will leave them fucked.

It’s just too much.

MattyJ

You'd like to think that.

MattyJ

Pretty sure the British public are in an abusive relationship with the tories at this point.

"I know he put me in the hospital with a broken nose but you don't understand I LOVE HIM SHARON"

LivDiv

Funkstain wrote:

Diluted Dante wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

What is the purpose of this essay?

That's what everyone asked when they annouced he was doing it. After reading it, the question was still there.

if it was "get me to make a fool of myself on a private forum" then job done, Starmer. Well played!

You are taking this far too personally.

Funkstain

I take everything personally - I'm a recovering narcissist

LivDiv

Have you considered a career in politics?

poprock

No, he said ‘recovering’.

AndCallMeCharlie

Diluted Dante wrote:

Rafel Behrs podcast is well worth a listen

Brooks

MattyJ wrote:

Pretty sure the British public are in an abusive relationship with the tories at this point. "I know he put me in the hospital with a broken nose but you don't understand I LOVE HIM SHARON"

It's been ever thus really.

AndCallMeCharlie

Brooks wrote:

Pretty sure the British public are in an abusive relationship with the tories at this point. "I know he put me in the hospital with a broken nose but you don't understand I LOVE HIM SHARON"

It's been ever thus really.

“In your council home he broke all your bones now you’re taking it time after time”

Escape

Yossarian wrote:

We went from Blair to Corbyn in a few years

Blair linked the uninterrupted rightwing run from Callaghan to Miliband. Given a voice and a leftwing option at last, we voted for it.

Starmer becoming PM won’t somehow prevent more left wing Labour leaders in the future.

He's already trying to close the door.

I also still believe he’d be much better for an awful lot of people than another Conservative

He is a Conservative. If you didn't know he was behind his latest 10 principles you'd ascribe them to a Tory.

Yossarian

Look, the way I see it is pretty simple. At the next election, the majority of us will have a choice between:

1. Voting for a government that seems to take pleasure in fucking over the poorest and most vulnerable in society.

2. Voting for a party that will, to some extent, improve the lives of the poorest and most vulnerable in society.

3. Voting for another party who has fuck all chance of winning in the first place.

If you decide to do 1, whatever, you’re a cunt. If you decide to do 3, fine, that’s your choice, but just don’t act like you’ve got any sort of moral high ground because you’ve shafted those most in need for the sake of your principles.

Escape

Yossarian wrote:

If you decide to do 1, whatever, you’re a cunt.

History's littered with enemies making temporary alliances to keep an even more insidious third-party out. I'd never vote Tory (there's no doubt they'd do more next-term damage), but I don't see a way back for the left if Starmer wins, so I hope he doesn't. Johnson instead? Christ, no.

Voting for a party that will, to some extent, improve the lives of the poorest and most vulnerable in society.

How? Where's the policy meat on their hollow chat?

To say ‘improve the lives of some people slightly’ is plausible, but ‘poorest and most vulnerable in society’ as a recurrent soundbite is Tory populism, exploiting voters' compassion with no commitment to deliver. The poorest and most vulnerable are the hardest hit should they believe it.

[edit]

Noxy was in first:

equinox_code wrote:

I think another 5 years of Tory rule might force Labour to reassess this centrist bullshit, while a Labour victory will no doubt vindicate all those who said this position on the political compass was the only way forward.

nope. def not. fuck that completely. with this in mind I think I'd sooner vote Tory than Labour if I had to choose. Fortunately I don't.

The serious danger is that a win's a win to this Labour, so they'd plough on with their shittery if they limped home with 8m, no reflection. Any miserable win is a mandate for their closing down of leftwing petition.

poprock wrote:

Our ~~public servants~~ ruling class, ladies and gentlemen:

I was all set to buy their ice-cream van until they saw where I live.

Yossarian wrote:

I’ll take the least bad option any day of the week, particularly bearing in mind that doing so could have a significant positive impact on the lives of many in society.

Picking the ‘least racist’ at any point in time is still punching the butterfly re: negative future outcomes. When you say significant, and this isn't meant in a diggish way, I feel you've Stockholm syndrome from your employer. Yours is increasingly a different page to the rest of ours here, and that's including former Starmerites. With his hair.

I think you've been taken by the centrist tide, but I don't think you're a centrist. Reconciling giving your support to a man who's offered to lube up first.

Yossarian wrote:

Interesting point here about Labour’s potential paths to a GE win, which has recently seemed to often rest on the assumption that the route is through current non-voters:

They could try appealing to floating grime fans. But o' course, they want the right kind of nonvoters.

acemuzzy

Oh god the government's moving heaven and earth again. No wonder there's been quakes etc.

LivDiv

Is this the fuel crisis thing?
They will move heaven and earth but won't budge on emergency visas because they know full well doing so will unravel their stupid Brexit nonsense.
Interesting chart on HGV drivers here.

Its not just Brexit, its also another deeply unpopular government blunt instrument IR35.

Yossarian

Escape wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

If you decide to do 1, whatever, you’re a cunt.

History's littered with enemies making temporary alliances to keep an even more insidious third-party out. I'd never vote Tory (there's no doubt they'd do more next-term damage), but I don't see a way back for the left if Starmer wins, so I hope he doesn't. Johnson instead? Christ, no.

Voting for a party that will, to some extent, improve the lives of the poorest and most vulnerable in society.

How? Where's the policy meat on their hollow chat?

It’s a fair question, one which I’m sure will be answered at some stage. If that doesn’t happen, I take it all back.

equinox_code wrote:

I think another 5 years of Tory rule might force Labour to reassess this centrist bullshit, while a Labour victory will no doubt vindicate all those who said this position on the political compass was the only way forward.

nope. def not. fuck that completely. with this in mind I think I'd sooner vote Tory than Labour if I had to choose. Fortunately I don't.

The serious danger is that a win's a win to this Labour, so they'd plough on with their shittery if they limped home with 8m, no reflection. Any miserable win is a mandate for their closing down of leftwing petition.

I get where you’re coming from, but I don’t believe it. Labour have been losing with centrists since Blair, it hasn’t changed their approach, I don’t see why one more loss would change that, and again, I think this whole idea that if a centrist wins the left is dead is just nonsense. And, in the meantime, another five years of this Tory government will do a lot of damage to a lot of lives.

Yossarian wrote:

I’ll take the least bad option any day of the week, particularly bearing in mind that doing so could have a significant positive impact on the lives of many in society.

Picking the ‘least racist’ at any point in time is still punching the butterfly re: negative future outcomes. When you say significant, and this isn't meant in a diggish way, I feel you've Stockholm syndrome from your employer. Yours is increasingly a different page to the rest of ours here, and that's including former Starmerites. With his hair.

I think you've been taken by the centrist tide, but I don't think you're a centrist. Reconciling giving your support to a man who's offered to lube up first.

You genuinely have no clue about my employer and the people I work with. You think you do, but you are consistently wide of the mark.

I’m just thinking practically, I can’t get what I’d like, so what’s the best next option? For me, it’s the one that I think will have a genuine chance at improving lives even if they won’t go as far as I might like.

monkey

I’ll still vote Labour because I’m in a Tory / Labour marginal so that’s not really a choice.

But, I’m increasingly coming to the view that they’re doing more harm than good and propping them up continually with the ‘better than the Tories’ vote, them losing anyway and hoping for some radical internal improvement from them is probably not for the best. They need to change or die and I’m not sure they’ll do either.

Complicating that is that any new party would take even longer to get into government than Labour seem to need.

monkey

It’s not completely without hope. It needs one transformative leader who is popular with public to get the rest of the party to line up behind whatever they’re proposing. Unfortunately there’s no one who fits the bill.

Diluted Dante

monkey wrote:

It’s not completely without hope. It needs one transformative leader who is popular with public to get the rest of the party to line up behind whatever they’re proposing. Unfortunately there’s no one who fits the bill.

The King of the North?

RedDave2

Ill be honest, i still dont see how even a centerist labour is close to being as damging as the tory group especially in its current mode which seems more worse than usual.

Sure, if labour lose again they may rethonk and come back with what you want but theres no guarantee they will or that the next version is any better. Given the last hard push to the left also failed maybe labour will side even more to the centre? Than what, give the tories another 5 years until the 'perfect' candidate appears?

Sorry, it doesnt make sense as a voting policy to me.

poprock

Diluted Dante wrote:

The King of the North?

I mean, I like the idea but I just can’t get used to calling you that.

EvilRedEye

It looks Labour are mulling adopting a policy on proportional representation which if it goes ahead would likely lead to an electoral pact with the Greens, Lib Dems etc. Really hope it goes ahead because it offers a decent chance of outing the Tories in the short term and ending this whole 'have to vote Labour even if they're shit to keep the Tories out' thing in the long-term.

Yossarian

Yep, it would be huge for the UK if it is adopted.

LivDiv

Well, well.
Johnson has reportedly given his approval for visas for european HGV drivers.

Now watch them tell us to fuck off because why the hell would they bother when apparently there is a surplus of work in Europe.

Its a strange move considering this has supposedly nothing to do with Brexit.

In other news we may have asked Bolsonaro for christmas turkeys.

davyK

I imagine the thought of fucking about with ferries and the chunnel again doesn't appeal when there's easier motorway jobs.

davyK

EvilRedEye wrote:

It looks Labour are mulling adopting a policy on proportional representation which if it goes ahead would likely lead to an electoral pact with the Greens, Lib Dems etc. Really hope it goes ahead because it offers a decent chance of outing the Tories in the short term and ending this whole 'have to vote Labour even if they're shit to keep the Tories out' thing in the long-term.

The Blues are now every bit as repulsive as they were pre Blair/Labour. The number of hateful fucks in gov then was astounding. I was one of the many who sat up extra late just to watch cunts like Mellor and Portillo (pre-pink jacket train man) get put out. Remember that cunt Hamilton? Edwina? Fucking Tebbit? Jesus.

A blood letting like that has to be due now. The breadth of arrogance is as bad as was back then. It's hard to believe the fuckwits who vote them in haven't had a bellyfull of this incompetence. Fuel shortages now. Jesus Fuck. I want to see it pile on and start to really hurt personally. Fuck these cunts.

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