Who thinks he's actually gonna go?

I don't think he will go. An election is too far off. That's the only thing MPs care about.

monkey wrote:

Since the first leaks from Whatsapp groups, where Tories suddenly discovered what screenshots were, the only stuff I've seen are performative rants that the senders are quite keen to have out there.

What does the sun effect of taking responsibility is saying the phrase “I’m taking responsibility”.

stonechalice wrote:

Who thinks he's actually gonna go?

I think he's fucked.

And if all else fails, hit out with a "instead of playing politics, we're more concerned with Levelling Up" line as if they're not fucking politicians that indeed, um, play that every fucking day.

Boils my blood that shite.

monkey wrote:

monkey wrote:

Since the first leaks from Whatsapp groups, where Tories suddenly discovered what screenshots were, the only stuff I've seen are performative rants that the senders are quite keen to have out there.

Bully backs clown who backed bully.......

Pop quiz : who would you rather see resign first Prince Andrew or Boris Johnson prime minister?

Maybe all the talk of the Paedo Prince will help dampen the fires around Boris Johnson? he's is no longer top billing on the news that's for sure.

DrewMerson wrote:

Regarding the Prince Andrew thing, as far as I can see this ruling doesn’t necessarily mean that he will definitely see the inside of a courtroom. This ruling just ends his legal team’s attempt to have the case dismissed, they may yet seek to settle this before it goes to trial.

It may do, however they could appeal. All the way to the Supreme Court, should they accept the case. More likely there will be a hefty settlement and this will all go away

I hope Giuffre refuses a settlement.
Reports her team requested one before but now it has gone this far maybe she will want her day in court.

Yossarian wrote:

In that case, why is it a ‘ploy’? What sense is there in people putting others who may well support left wing candidates into boxes, being hostile towards them, making them feel unwelcome? Why shouldn’t that be called out as being counterproductive when it pretty clearly is?

Because I think it's parallel to wokism — a rightwing confection always on the lookout for mentally ill fringers to paint the whole wagon with, when being ‘woke’ is simply not being a rubbish person.

Because yes, we have some of those on the left. Except the vast majority of us merely want vanilla leftwing policies, and ‘gatekeep’ so hard because of how many bad-faith righties are trying to poison the pond. We ain't the recalcitrants.

Noise that Labour's last mano was too ambitious to enact didn't come from our end, for example. Wealth-preserving elites are the real gatekeepers, not those of us welcoming their critics with open, plain old socialist arms. I know about compromise because I'm quite radical, and moved a fair bit to my own right to support old-school Labour.

Anyway, it's a long wait until we'll know who was right. I'm predicting Starmer won't crack 10m, won't form a majority, and when they boot him it'll be his sales blamed rather than his policies. There'll be photos of Tonty Hartnell.

Funkstain wrote:

At worst, these policies despite seeming generous are so market-driven and capitalistic* that they undermine the concepts of fairness and equality fundamentally, and lead to a disenfranchised base who look elsewhere and internally for better solutions, and that's how we end up with Brexit and demagoguery and populism and unchecked executive power and ludicrous culture wars.

Nails it. It's so tough, because those who need the most help are often easiest to convince their grievances have exclusively rightwing solutions. But how we arrived here is the crux. Thatcher's lineage and all that.

I understand and agree that presenting too far left is a terrible, vote-losing idea, but that's sprung the door for the Starmers of this world to fake that's what they're about, with centrists calling us out for refusing to believe them.

This march towards MPs finding it harder and harder to propose leftwing policies continues, they're subsequently watered-down, and that just helps the right tug 'em across again a bit later. All recent history.

See how far we've drifted in our own lifetimes, when all the last Labour were offering was a reset to a previous default. Compromising with a non-union, non-socialist Labour is just making a rod for our own backs.

LivDiv wrote:

The most likely route to PR in my mind is one where Labour are forming a coalition post-election and to do so they adopt PR under pressure both from the other coalition parties and internally. For that to happen the Tories can't be able to form a government of any form. So constituencies need to have fewer parties splitting the non-Tory vote.

Yeah, it's definitely a catch-22 on paper, but also untested because we've never had a sizeable leftwing party doing the splitting that wasn't Labour before. The Dems have always appealed to not-quite-Tories, and although the SNP are far from leftwing, they've shown plenty of growth by tapping into a formerly unserved market.

If Starmer tanks as hard as I expect him to it's a free shot anyway. Shove Labour's lefties into a new party, let them take on the hundreds of thousands of us who campaigned on the doors, and see where the numbers fall. Never trying this because we're scared of helping the Tories isn't a problem while Labour are lubing the shafting.

JonB wrote:

I'd prefer PR but I don't see it as the great hope that some of the current centrist gang seem to. It's another move in the game, a tactic to find a new advantage, not a solution to the problems in Britain's democracy, nor even a means to reach them. And currently it seems as much of a fantasy as a strong new left-wing party emerging anyway.

PR's only as good as its punters, for sure. And it could well be a careful-what-you-wish-for, where I'm currently so keen because of how much it'd help boost lefties' voices and influence. In future that could change into a BNP nightmare.

We'd have to hope for a nicer, smarter populace to prevent that, which I think is doable if enough physical benefits were achieved.

LivDiv wrote:

He must think he has the Trump style cult support of the public. He doesn't.

Dark Soldier wrote:

He isn't gonna go lads. 'Mon now.

Team DS! The knives are sharpened, for real, but at least in my circles nobody cares. Johnson had an outdoor party, same as many of them had barbies, and they'll just support him harder if Tory vultures tighten up their swoop.

EvilRedEye wrote:

It genuinely baffles me that they don't seem to care that every kid in the country is gonna be told what a bunch of cunts they all were when they learn about the pandemic in history class in 50+ years' time. Imagine going down in history as just a giant, giant cunt.

LivDiv wrote:

I hope Giuffre refuses a settlement. Reports her team requested one before but now it has gone this far maybe she will want her day in court.

The media have said the Queen won't help, but we know that's bollocks. Prince Doorknocker's gonna keep upping his millions.

But I'd love to see her refuse. There's still good money on the table if she does (inevitable book deal), and she'd be lauded as a great whistleblower. Perhaps not for the first time, but I ain't judgin'.

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

The problem with PR is only a left wing party can bring it about in the first place. The precedent is for a referendum which is going to be hard to win. And the other precedent is that left wing party, having finally won power, in a winner takes all system, will be seduced by that power and not want to give it up.

Exactly. It all seems like a vague tactical hope at the moment. Labour aren't going to lead the charge, and with the misplaced self-belief of the current leadership, even if they get in with a coalition they'll believe they can win outright next time. If there's a referendum, it'll be another half-arsed one.

The idea that you can fix a problematic system by tweaking the rules is a dream. One we seem to be stuck in.

The Tories will want the next GE to be in the honeymoon period of whoever comes next. And for basically all current shit to land on Boris not his successor.

With taxes going up soon, and the apparent looming cost of living crisis, that's timing that's hard to get right. So hopefully they'll fuck it up.