Culturally I don't have a problem with unification. I like the South. I love the fact that it feels different. I feel like I'm on holiday when I go there.  Not a massive fan of Dublin but I have had good times there.

One aspect of unification will be losing that sense of holiday - but I can live with that.  I have zero interest in GAA but there's always Rugby (as painful as that has been this week).  What will sting more is having to bear triumphalism from bitter hardcore nationalists but hardcore unionists have been dishing that out for generations. So that will be a price to pay. Worth paying if it all goes well.

It's the economy that worries me more. NI is heavily subsidised by Westminster. £10bn a year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_fiscal_balance

Healthcare, public services, state pensions, taxation, national infrastructure.  Those issues concern me more.

Softer issues - will the flag change? The tricolor was created as a response to partition. Will the national anthem remain the same?

There is also the case of transitional friction. Parades are one thing but other less socially responsible activities such as bonfires and flags will be a cause for emotional reaction which could spill into violence , and not just in the normal flashpoints. Policing and security will be a major factor in a new Ireland.

Education is a huge issue here. We have in effect educational apartheid in N.Ireland. And my perception of the South is that it would continue. Many of our problems here stem from that.

There is the upside of EU membership, but I'm uneasy with the RoI's relationship with the US. It feels like a de facto 51st state with IT companies parking there on good deals with little benefit to the state or society. Maybe that's not the case. But I don't want to swap West Brits for East Yanks, if you get my drift. I remain mystified as to why the Irish scurry to the Whitehouse every 17th March no matter what maniac is in office. Crumbs from the table? I don't know.

A unified Ireland is one thing. I'm more interested in an independent Ireland - weaned off GB/US handouts with the industrial strength here in the North playing its full part with the strengths of the South.  We may be planters but our excellence in engineering was a consequence of that and it needs to be taken advantage of. And not just traditional engineering. The North is now a global centre of excellence in cyber security and a significant portion of global transactions are processed by code cut in NI.

We can do a hell of a lot better together.

I mean it's got more detail than the record election winning 'Get Brexit Done'.

LivDiv wrote:

I mean it's got more detail than the record election winning 'Get Brexit Done'.

Its got more words. I'm not sure its got more detail.

Its specifically about Ireland so its targeted. It also says "Sort out" which implies some kind of direction.

Its no stone tablet I'll give you that.

Ladies and gentlemen, your deputy Prime Minister:

https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1544226722681331712

I feel like if someone I worked with had a complaint upheld about them being a sex pest I would not only remember it would jump into my head every time I saw them or read their name. It would certainly pop into my mind appointing them, to a position of moderating discipline and absolutely when it turned out that again they had done the thing they had a complaint about them upheld over.

I'd love it if just one day they appeared on the news and just said "Fuck it... I can't defend this". The knots they tie themselves in is so clearly embarrassing.

b0r1s wrote:

I'd love it if just one day they appeared on the news and just said "Fuck it... I can't defend this".

Ah, but for that they would need morals, ethics, a conscience …

Yossarian wrote:

TBF, I don’t think that’s a particular issue in tech, I think most people in well-paid fields tend to have a skewed perspective on what others earn.

Proof:

https://www.newstatesman.com/society/2022/07/60-per-cent-brits-average-income

Yossarian wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

TBF, I don’t think that’s a particular issue in tech, I think most people in well-paid fields tend to have a skewed perspective on what others earn.

Proof: https://www.newstatesman.com/society/2022/07/60-per-cent-brits-average-income

I can't help but feel these people are stupid. 

"Yeah, all these cleaners and customer service staff must be on about £80k like me."

The last few hours on the G’s Politics Live blog look pretty brutal for the government.

This call from someone who claims to be a currently-serving civil servant to James O’Brien is quite something too*:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/opinion/civil-servant-urges-colleagues-to-quit-over-boris-johnsons-lies/

* assuming he is who he claims to be, of course. No idea if there is any sort of checking with these types of claims.

And yea you're right, always a risk that these people aren't who they say they are.
I mean, they let me on the show three times!

LivDiv wrote:

I dont think its that. They know those people are worse off but not representative of the norm. There are people with less money (cleaners, retail workers) people with more (CEOs, celebs) and they are in the middle, in their mind. They are probably ticking similar boxes as those on quite a bit less. Mortgage, car holiday etc. They just have newer, better bigger versions. So a household with 40-50k dont look all that obviously different. I wonder how much of that view is also skewed by media and advertising. If you were to live the lifestyle presented as the norm in the media you probably would need 80-100k. Im thinking ads that portray the average family like Ikea or family cars.

I do understand this, but I just cannot grasp how 42% of respondents earning between £120K and £140K can be so completely unaware of wider social and economic conditions as to believe that their household income is "about average". 42%!!! I can only hope they asked 50 people from Chipping Norton.

It's just one of those really depressing stats, actually. It may seem harmless - oh well people in social circles etc - but it reflects something deep about our attitude to others and our lack of empathy and understanding and inclination to examine the wider world we live in

Is "household income" after tax, in this context? But would include both earners if married?

I definitely feel its ignorance more than anything which is perhaps why I was reaching for an explanation. Given the salaries of these people its unlikely 42% are thick as mince, some will be but most will have a decent level of intelligence in some form.

I think I would rather look at that stat and think 'why is that?' than just default to 'bunch o cunts' as I might have done in the past.
Like you say if it is colouring their beliefs across the board understanding the error they are making could help resolve it.