The British Politics Thread - The Bear and Badger

Escape

Yossarian wrote:

I know that you’re quite sure that the existence of a centrist/right-wing/however-you-want-to-describe-them Labour Party is one of the main impediments to there being a true socialist government, but I’m very much yet to be convinced that more Conservative rule will suddenly create a groundswell of support for a left-wing alternative.

When most of us voted for Corbyn it was for his policies, our only care for Labour its power position in terms of voter flock (or so we hoped).

That Labour and the Tories are blending so much after routing the left is an opportunity for a renewed socialist Labour, on condition it's large enough to field hundreds of candidates, which is fast becoming feasible with crowdfunding and union support in waiting.

We've three rightwing parties after a blip that's left a vacuum to challenge them in this connected age. I know Sanders didn't win, but he was there. It's how Corbyn happened in the first place, after all.

Yossarian

Escape wrote:

on condition it's large enough to field hundreds of candidates, which is fast becoming feasible with crowdfunding and union support in waiting.

If I’m being honest, this doesn’t strike me as particularly feasible at all.

Brooks

Yeah I would uhh, like to see some evidence of that one too.

Diluted Dante

Unless FPTP is replaced, the Popular Front of Judea won't stand a chance.

Pseudoscot

Splitters.

Brooks

I do think that workplaces were and remain the key site for regenerating an effective curb on elite fuckery, but with current membership rates at summat like less than 7 million (and falling) and the age of that skewing 50+, there's some major work to be done.

GooberTheHat

London is fertile ground I reckon, but yeah, a tonne of work required.

Brooks

London and the southeast have the lowest current rates of union membership. One supposes the tech and services sectors are overdue a grand hustling but it doesn't seem to have happened yet.

Yossarian

The problem with unionising in tech is that tech workers are in incredibly high demand so it’s a lot easier to switch jobs for better pay and conditions than to organise for it.

Tech workers also often have pretty good pay and conditions to start with too.

b0r1s

Yep tech workers are, on the whole, completely out of touch when it comes to the reality of cost of living. I know three tech people I’ve worked with and all voted Brexit and all can ride out this shithouse because of how much they earn. I’ve pulled up each one of them on that point.

I recall the tech guy on QT a couple years ago who said that £80k was an average salary.

Yossarian

TBF, I don’t think that’s a particular issue in tech, I think most people in well-paid fields tend to have a skewed perspective on what others earn.

b0r1s

Just that most people in tech with a few years experience have relatively high salaries.

Rev

Escape wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

I know that you’re quite sure that the existence of a centrist/right-wing/however-you-want-to-describe-them Labour Party is one of the main impediments to there being a true socialist government, but I’m very much yet to be convinced that more Conservative rule will suddenly create a groundswell of support for a left-wing alternative.

When most of us voted for Corbyn it was for his policies, our only care for Labour its power position in terms of voter flock (or so we hoped). That Labour and the Tories are blending so much after routing the left is an opportunity for a renewed socialist Labour, on condition it's large enough to field hundreds of candidates, which is fast becoming feasible with crowdfunding and union support in waiting. We've three rightwing parties after a blip that's left a vacuum to challenge them in this connected age. I know Sanders didn't win, but he was there. It's how Corbyn happened in the first place, after all.

You're talking about something that is going to take about 10 years to bear fruit here. They literally arrested Steve Bray today for protesting outside parliament and you want to wait until we have a party that is left enough for you? Bloody hell. What a joke.
We don't have ten years, we'll be lucky if we get 10 months before they roll out the next assault on our human rights. Honestly, it baffles me you think having the Tories around for any longer than we need to so you can build your pipe dream. I don't get it.

Rev

Fucking hell.

Rev

Scottish Independence Referendum announced for the 19th October 2023. Now we just need to deal with 16 months of total shit from the Right wing press as to why we're such a burden to the UK while at the same time doing everything to convince everyone that we need to stick around for shits and giggles. Looking forward to Johnson dropping some huge anti-scottish clangers in the next few months.

Yossarian

I doubt that the right-wing press and government will do much aside from point out the referendum’s lack of legitimacy.

poprock

Rev wrote:

Looking forward to Johnson dropping some huge anti-scottish clangers in the next few months.

This will be an amusing sideshow / trash fire, for sure.

I find it interesting how bolshy/confident Sturgeon is being about this. Announce that it’s going to happen, then announce the date, and only then go about the legal argument to be allowed to do it. Shoot first, ask questions later.

poprock

Yossarian wrote:

I doubt that the right-wing press and government will do much aside from point out the referendum’s lack of legitimacy.

If it gets judged legitimate by the Supreme Court, then they’ll need to move on to another argument pretty swiftly.

Yossarian

Big “if” right there.

Rev

Makes me lol that the UK government will throw around words like 'legitimate and legal' in the next few months while doing the opposite for Northern Ireland.

Yossarian

Still, good luck with it, I’m still hoping that I can get an EU passport if you ever do become independent, so fingers crossed that I’m wrong.

afgavinstan

I'm probably still Yes but find myself annoyed by the timing. Meant to be a debate today in holyrood on drug deaths which are at scandalous levels but no, that's been delayed because of... *gestures around me* this. Terrible optics on the subject of priorities, imo. Worst cancer treatment referral rates since records began and among the worst A&E waiting times. I see this shit every day and deal with it. But no. Let's have another two years of this.

Just sighing into the ether. Ignore me.

davyK

poprock wrote:

Rev wrote:

Looking forward to Johnson dropping some huge anti-scottish clangers in the next few months.

This will be an amusing sideshow / trash fire, for sure. I find it interesting how bolshy/confident Sturgeon is being about this. Announce that it’s going to happen, then announce the date, and only then go about the legal argument to be allowed to do it. Shoot first, ask questions later.

If anyone in the Conservative Party is concerned about a Scottish leave vote then they will need to buy some large gags. Even the sight of that cunt makes me think about reaching for the Irish tricolor.

Rev

New Bill of Rights states that it will be lawful for the Government to kill you if your death occurs through what they label as a riot or insurrection.

monkey

That’s some shameless Boris Johnson shit from Sturgeon there.

Rev

So if a demonstration gets out of hand and they send the riot police in and the protestors have to literally fight to get out of their and the police kill someone then they have effectively denounced their right to life because they were part of a riot. This is fascism.

monkey

That’s been law since 1998 when the original Human Rights Act was done. Some people on Twitter have got the wrong end of the stick.

poprock

monkey wrote:

Some people on Twitter have got the wrong end of the stick.

Surely not. Here, look at my surprised face.

acemuzzy

There's ya Steve Bray silenced due to the new protest laws. Woo, gotta love our freedoms.

Yossarian

Apparently he wants to go to court. Who knows, maybe he’ll win.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1541836307390930945

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