Racist - The Bear and Badger

Funkstain

Apart from this take: stay the fuck off Twitter you dumb shits

mistercrayon

Funkstain wrote:

Elf and others here have used the term "coconut" a few times. It's not something I'd feel comfortable saying, as a honky, but given the context and the person affected, I'd have to say I don't get why she's being punished for the terms she used.

Imo I think it’s okay to use it in a friendly way amongst friends but I don’t have truck with dishing it out.

It’s certainly got no business being defended as used term in academia.

dynamiteReady

Knight wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/16/uk-academic-sues-university-losing-role-critical-race-theory-row-leeds-beckett I’m going to summarise this one as, “if I’m a critical theorist I get to call black people names on Twitter that they deem racist.” But it’d be interesting to hear different takes.

What's the root of your take?

Whether the use of terms like 'coconut' are racist, given the complexity of their origin?

I personally think, at least, the university was right to punish an official for using crass language in a public spat. I think most people would agree with the application of some kind of punishment, even if she was merely calling the dude a 'prick'.

For a start, I don't know if there are rules against uni staff making politically partial comments public, but even if there weren't, not many organisations would want their staff sitting front and centre in a political row with racial connotations.

And as a 'Critical Race Theorist', you'd expect a lecturer to know that such language is racially 'charged' and will clearly be seen as incendiary. If she didn't, then I'm sure some of her classes will be a good laugh.

I don't think she has a right to sue (if this is her deeply held 'belief', then she's part of the problem). But if she apologised first, and appealed for her role to be re-instated, I think she'd probably get a better result for herself.

dynamiteReady

Facebook's recommendation algorithms have been flagged for racism:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58462511

Facewon

This is like the umpteenth time ai has been caught for this shit.

Why do I feel the issue is fundamentally white tech bros gonna tech bro?

dynamiteReady

I'd mostly agree. Tbf, where these systems are set up to go through large collections of trashy comments and ropey memes, you could give a benefit of a doubt and blame it on the audience. But this reeks, at the very least, of negligence.

At worse, the lizards need to clear out the tray.

davyK

The facial recognition aspect of it makes for uncomfortable reading.

Funkstain

I mean didn’t Google deal with this by firing one of their AI lead researchers when she tried to publish a paper on several fundamental flaws in ML which leads to biased AI? The lizards are quite happy with their shitty tray I think

Escape

davyK wrote:

The facial recognition aspect of it makes for uncomfortable reading.

hunk

dynamiteReady wrote:

I'd mostly agree. Tbf, where these systems are set up to go through large collections of trashy comments and ropey memes, you could give a benefit of a doubt and blame it on the audience. But this reeks, at the very least, of negligence.

At worse, the lizards need to clear out the tray.

I'd say this is currently the main problem with AI. AI learns through crawling through datasets and if your main dataset is the internet (aka society 'unfiltered') you're going to teach it human culture/habits including all the awful racist biases. Especially if the AI learns through assumptions like a human. Dumb techbros never learn do they?

It's like looking into a mirror and being spooked at what you see as you expected a photoshopped wholesome image of oneself. Instead, the mirror gives you the ugly pic warts and all.

Techbros gonna techbro.

davyK

@escape...... coffee splutter.

davyK

Caught something on TV this morn about the possibility of teams walking off if racial abuse happens on the football field. Im surprised it has taken this long to consider it. It would start self policing in the stands for one thing.

poprock

I reckon there would absolutely be ‘fans’ trying to game that system. “If they walk off, we win the league on points” etc etc.

regmcfly

poprock wrote:

I reckon there would absolutely be ‘fans’ trying to game that system. “If they walk off, we win the league on points” etc etc.

Cool, let them, and then let the FA deal with that.

regmcfly

Your team loses every week because you're a racist so you get relegated.

Granted there will be the odd sods trying to get themselves in the other team but they will be drowned out.

davyK

I think it's such a great fix. Players need support though with no lawyers waving contracts in their faces. Fuck them. Walk off lads. No players no product to sell.

RedDave2

davyK wrote:

I think it's such a great fix. Players need support though with no lawyers waving contracts in their faces. Fuck them. Walk off lads. No players no product to sell.

The decision shouldnt be on the players. It should be made by the manager or even higher up. This takes the burden off players who might be new to a club or just getting a run in the team etc.

It should become part of Club policy. I wonder can how the TV contracts /sponsership might be affected but that might be the real battleground.

acemuzzy

It clearly needs the Premiership/FA/UEFA/FIFA involved I think, cos teams have walked off before and have generally then been penalised...

davyK

But if all teams do it......and keep doing it.

Facewon

dynamiteReady wrote:

Facebook's recommendation algorithms have been flagged for racism:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58462511

Tangent alert, but I'll bring it back....

This thread about one of the sokal squared fucktards mentions a book that may be worth hunting down.

Weapons of math destruction by Cathy O'Neil. Seems to be very much about the assumptions that lead to this BS.

https://twitter.com/MichaelBerube1/status/1372627537491279882?s=19

dynamiteReady

davyK wrote:

Caught something on TV this morn about the possibility of teams walking off if racial abuse happens on the football field. Im surprised it has taken this long to consider it. It would start self policing in the stands for one thing.

Yeah. I think Gareth Bale raised it at the start of the week. This is exactly the kind of 'piecemeal' punishment I'm advocating, and for a certain aspect of racism in sport, it will make a huge difference. I'd go one further, and also use those rules to manage pricks like the idiots who threw that water bottle at Payet recently.

Yeah, they're getting paid a squillion a month, but they don't deserve that.

Facewon wrote:

Facebook's recommendation algorithms have been flagged for racism: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58462511

Tangent alert, but I'll bring it back.... This thread about one of the sokal squared fucktards mentions a book that may be worth hunting down. Weapons of math destruction by Cathy O'Neil. Seems to be very much about the assumptions that lead to this BS. https://twitter.com/MichaelBerube1/status/1372627537491279882?s=19

I'd actually been tempted to buy that a few months back. The world's been going down a funny road, ever since the Nazi's gave IBM that government contract.

DrewMerson

davyK

DrewMerson wrote:

Players abandoning matches in response to racism has been mooted for as long as I can remember. I’d love to see it happen, but I’ll be amazed if it ever does.

Sadly, I agree.

But , it remains the one thing that would make the administration of the sport take things seriously.