hylian_elf wrote:

Also, Random Nameless Rat is the hero for bringing AntMan back which sets it all in motion.

It took 14 million different timelines for that rat to press the right buttons on the keyboard.

I also would have liked to have seen Hulk v Thanos round 2.

It felt totally in place in a comic book film, they do those kind of spreads in comics all the time.

Ah the "Here come the girlz" bit was fine and a bit of fun.
Pointless though, cos Cap Marvel just barrelled right through the army regardless.

But she gets help anyway, because SUPERFRIENDS.

Tempy wrote:

Definitely remind any young girls you meet about how pointless it was too, get them ready for the real world.

This stuff is far more important than the older generation think.

Exactly the same sort of convo's we had about the importance of Black Panther as a mainstream, almost all black cast, that wasn't about guns, drugs or hip-hop.

Media is massively important to the overall culture and moving it away from negative influences to positive is good in my eyes.

Tempy wrote:

Definitely remind any young girls you meet about how pointless it was too, get them ready for the real world.

Sigh. 
My point was the all-girl(teeny, tiny weak ickle girls) bit was completely undermined by Cap Marvel not needing any help whatsoever. If she was not in the battle at that point and Scarlet Witch or something was doing the run then it would have been a far more effective moment IMO. The power of these women was rendered totally redundant. go back to the kitchen women.
Similarly for Black Panther. Is it an important movie? Yes. Was it a good movie? Not really IMO.

Fuck sake dude you really dig for the worst meaning.

How is their power rendered redundant? Captain Marvel understands the power of teamwork.

Also, Black Panther is a good movie.

It's not.
Re Black Panther.

Tempy wrote:

Incidentally I saw it with three women. They all enjoyed that scene, which is really all that matters in the end. Even if it’s just a cynical marketing ploy or whatever, it’s still a concession to an audience that have sat through 22 films led by men. They got a moment to see them all stand together, it’s a fun, strong image.

I’m more than happy for it to be there if it’s having the desired effect. My reaction, which I’m happy to admit was off, is that giving women a special little “hey look this is all girls” moment is condescending and makes an issue out of it, rather than blending it in more naturally.

You could definitely argue it could come across as condescending, a friend of mine from way back home said she didn't like it because of that too, but I think appealing to the traditional imagery in comics of the "spread of heroes" all lining up but having it all be women who had had various levels of presence in the biggest movie franchise is a decent statement from a studio that is fairly lazy about this stuff. I just find it hard to be cynical about it.

superflyninja wrote:

Christ its like I need to add a disclaimer under every post: "I am not a misogynist, racist. Honest!!"

I don't think you're misogynistic or racist. I think you're taking this a little personally. I'm just presenting an alternate point of view, and why the moment might have landed better for others who weren't viewing it through your perspective is all.

Tempy wrote:

It felt totally in place in a comic book film, they do those kind of spreads in comics all the time.

Thats a good point actually - it probably was the most comic book panel still shot in the battle. 

My take overall is similar to Superflyninja in that I dont think the films earned the moment through the films alone. Its very much a scene based on the times we live in and to an extent that is absolutely fine. But its context will (hopefully) be lost many years on.

I'd compare it to the big 'stand up' moment at the end of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. If you havent seen it, its where Buffy and Willow turn every young girl in the world into a slayer to help beat a huge monster army. Its a great concept to end the show and it has a montage not too disimilar to the one in captain marvel. It features girls in many walks of life standing up, reaching their potential. But the point is, the show has been building to a moment like this, so its earned. I take Tempys point that plot doesnt need to be everything, but context for these scenes helps give them depth. 

The film certainly doesnt suffer for the scene, but I feel it doesnt have any real context within the marvel universe. As a piece of fan service, fuck yeah it certainly looked cool.

Onto Captain Marvel. A lot has been made out of this character and her eventual role in all this. I thought it was damn near spot on except for one small niggle and its nothing to do with gender and everything to so with a hero this powerful. Nothing is really a struggle for her in this so it completely ruins the drama. Its very much the same as Supermans return in Justice League. He appears and takes down Stephen Wold so easy and so cockily that it undermines the rest of the teams struggle. i think a little of that happens here with Captain Marvel. 

She makes it look too easy, to the point that as many have said here - she didnt seem like she needed the help of others. It's not as bad as the Superman stuff but its close and Marvel will need to play things careful that this character doesnt become a similar problem. Its not that I mind her going toe to toe with Thanos and looking like she could win - I thought that bit was fucking great. I thought it was great that Thanos could only knock her down with the Power Stone. 

Its just the bits where she looks like its not a bother to her. The headbutt should have had a small flinch before Thanos realsies he didnt do any damage. Instead, she doesnt react at all so if that doesnt hurt her, why is there any problem with the rest of the combat. In Wrestling terms, the selling is as important as the comeback. 

As a comparisson, Scarlett Witch comes across as so bad ass and nearly rips Thanos apart but shes clearly at full tilt with rage. I thought that worked much better. Its a minor thing all in all, I like the Cap Marvel Super Cocky Confident Hero persona overall. I just think they need to be careful with how powerful she actually is.

The only thing I didn't like about the all-girl line-up scene/spread thing was that the antenna-lady (what's her name?!) didn't really play it too well, kinda looked like she was looking around what to do and move her arms a bit to look hard and menacing whereas the others had weapons or some glowy powers or something to help them.

nick_md wrote:

Buffy spoilers omd!

Ah shit man sorry.