The Matrix - There will be spoilers inside - The Bear and Badger

mistercrayon

Matrix 2:
I must admit I'm a fan of this one, but maybe that previous swing to positivity has made me feel more disappointed with this viewing

One of the most intriguing things is that you can see the bits of the film that feel like they were cutscenes for the video game "enter the matrix" (stuff like the blow up the powerstation feels like a mission).

I get to this one again and I'm still nonethewiser why neo can afftect the machines outside the matrix. I think the best guess now (before the 4th one) is that the real world is another matrix. It feels like it fits the architect's choice talk a lot better (i.e. give people fake choices to make them feel in control).

Neo's choice towards the end is quite an interesting one. Either kill zion or let all the robots kill zion and save Trinity. It's not really much of a choice imo.

The action in it is good but I think they got a bit too excited with the computer graphics tech which was nearly there but not quite there (I think even a pre-rendered Matrix Awakens might not be). And it sullies some of the action which feels artificial. It's interesting even now Marvel will keep its characters in costumes.

I sometimes suspect whether the ability to fill gaps in the film is good writing or not or is it really searching and giving too much aid to shit writing.

Still there's some good action - the whole highway chase is a good mix of music and movement and the graphics work works nice with cars.

Raiziel

That chateau fight scene before the highway chase is my absolute favourite. Perfect action x music mix imo.

MattyJ

I think Neo having power outside of the matrix is something to do with the fact his the first person to ever make the choice to not save Zion but save Trinity. His love for trinity isn't something which has ever been seen by the machines before, and their connection seems to cause issues with the simulation. I mean she literally kisses him back to life as well, which should never have happened, right?

Usually The One goes to the source, chooses to save Zion, everything gets reset and job done. He doesn't do that, but now has all this extra knowledge about the system he never had before, which he can now use to his advantage.

But unless the Wachowskis come out and actually explain it, it's all guesswork.

Raiziel

I prefer my theory that this particular kung fu is better than that kung fu.

mistercrayon

MattyJ wrote:

I think Neo having power outside of the matrix is something to do with the fact his the first person to ever make the choice to not save Zion but save Trinity. His love for trinity isn't something which has ever been seen by the machines before, and their connection seems to cause issues with the simulation. I mean she literally kisses him back to life as well, which should never have happened, right? Usually The One goes to the source, chooses to save Zion, everything gets reset and job done. He doesn't do that, but now has all this extra knowledge about the system he never had before, which he can now use to his advantage. But unless the Wachowskis come out and actually explain it, it's all guesswork.

Yeah the other one I saw is that going into the source gives him the same kind of connections to the machine that the other machines (like squids have) a sort of wifi link into the matrix (which is why he sort of stays in the matrix - or goes back in).

GurtTractor

He's still got a bunch of hardware in his head, so I guess they could explain the out-of-the-matrix stuff as being some kind of nearfield wireless communication and disruption. Maybe part of the reason why he's got such control in the matrix is because of his particular neural interface to the hardware. His ascension to the being The One was all planned IIRC.

g.man

Raiziel wrote:

I prefer my theory that this particular kung fu is better than that kung fu.

This works for me.

ChopperByrne

Matrix 2 was good, but it's when he meets the architect that the story of the Trilogy takes a nose dive that it never recovers from. 3 is a load of bollocks, and doesn't even have good fight scenes to save it. Story wise this one will no doubt also be bollocks, just have to hope the action is good.

hunk

GurtTractor wrote:

He's still got a bunch of hardware in his head, so I guess they could explain the out-of-the-matrix stuff as being some kind of nearfield wireless communication and disruption. Maybe part of the reason why he's got such control in the matrix is because of his particular neural interface to the hardware. His ascension to the being The One was all planned IIRC.

Aye, that's the logical explanation.
The other explanation is theological/philosophical in that neo literally is the 'enlightened' one in a buddhistic sense. And with spiritual enlightenment you get super (sayan) powers ofc. This is literally implied by neo being blinded in the 'real' world and yet he's still capable of seeing, fighting with 'uploaded' Smith and communicating with the machines.

Also, that ending of revolutions.

Spoiler:

mistercrayon

I've completed the trilogy now. Ready to watch 4 whenever. The thing with 3 is that it feels like at this point they Wachowski are kind of sick of the matrix parts of the series. The film seems to spend so much time outside the matrix that it's kind of hard to believe it's the same thing as the first one. Instead we get this kind of Lord of the Rings 2 vibe where they're defending a small hold with massively overgunned foes and hope for randomness to fix it all. (I think the Book of LotR does this differently and just has the Men hold out through strenght and will).

I actually, if I cared about zion, think that the whole of the middle portion is really fun. The action with the space ship is cool and the way they pace the perpetual destruction of Zion is very well done - slow enough that the tension ratchets up and then when they burst the EMP it's quite a relief.

I'm not really convinced by the character of Lock (the General or whatever he is). Firstly they show no reason why Niobe would have an interest in him, he's a boring dolt. Then he has the gall to be smug about the EMP causing failure after the whole endeavour to defend the people has basically failed.

I think one bit I really dig is how from the second one there's this underlying idea about unable to understand choices and it comes back to bite smith in the ass - he can predict upto the point where he's winning then can't see that Neo's suicide is what does him in, he can't see beyond this kind of idiotic (to him) choice.

Another thing I quite liked was it feels like this film sort of inverts the first one. It starts with a lobby fight and ends with a fight between Smith and Neo in something that looks a lot like the Dojo that Morpheus and Neo fight in.

I think if the film didn't have the Zion bits it might be a better received film but they would need to add a lot to the other half of the film. I can see though how it is impossible for anyone to "win" while inside effectively the computer game parts of the system. It's then obvious that the name "the matrix" refers to a time when there was just one film. The matrix itself is a small and insignificant part of the story/world really.

The idea that the (what we see) is the real world isn't really the real world doesn't quite hold up, but I like it better as a concept (the "real world", is the fake choice exit world to help unsatisfied matrix dwellers feel like they have achieved their desire to move on) than the idea the whole world is wifi and once you come out of it you can be clever enough to manipulate it.

EvilRedEye

hunk wrote:

Sorry, Wachowski bros are now the Wachowski sisters ofc. Point is, why is the other sibling not partaking in the project?

Lilly was asked about it and said she didn't really feel like going back and revisiting a project from her past after transitioning and dealing with the death of her parents. She took an extended break from the entertainment industry after transitioning.

hunk

The death of a parent can have quite an impact on a person so that's understandable.
For a moment I thought it was sibling rivalry and fallout (think Oasis).

Escape

Raiziel wrote:

Lord_Griff wrote:

Fishbourne was pissed not to be asked, apparently.

Quite right too. I’m sorry, but I doubt whoever they got to replace him will fill his shoes.

The Fishbourne identity.

Moot_Geeza

I Now Pronounce You Chucked, Larry.

hunk

mistercrayon wrote:

The idea that the (what we see) is the real world isn't really the real world doesn't quite hold up, but I like it better as a concept (the "real world", is the fake choice exit world to help unsatisfied matrix dwellers feel like they have achieved their desire to move on) than the idea the whole world is wifi and once you come out of it you can be clever enough to manipulate it.

The trilogy is basically a mashup of bestof of epic popular human mythology/theology. Lot's of references (Greek (Plato's cave, the matrix as the underworld, Buddhist enlightenment/yin and yang, the Christian Messiah (death, sacrifice, rebirth)).
Neo sleeps, awakens, becomes enlightened, dies and is kept prisoner in limbo, escapes the underworld (the matrix), ascends to the heavens only to sacrifice himself for humanity to eventually die again. Like Smith would say: It is his fate, its inevitable.

If the synopsis above sounds familiar it's because it is.

RedDave2

Are we saying the bible was the matrix of its day and modern fate is based on misinterpreting a piece of entertainment???

hunk

Nah, the film is just a sci-fi allegory inspired by philosophy and religion. The people overthinking it are the internet right-wingers/mysogenists abusing the Wachowski's legacy. Enlightenment by propaganda is not enlightenment, it's od-ing on blue pills.

Edit: although your suggestion is another way of interpreting the films.

mistercrayon

Also I wanted to say: I like Trinity and Neo as a couple and I’m glad they’re back as a two for the fourth one.

Dark Soldier

'Out' tomorrow lads cannot wait

Armitage_Shankburn

Dark Soldier wrote:

'Out' tomorrow lads cannot wait

send PM

regmcfly

Armitage_Shankburn wrote:

Dark Soldier wrote:

'Out' tomorrow lads cannot wait

send PM

See me post in movie thread

LivDiv

Is it out tomorrow or ooout wink wink tomorrow?

Dark Soldier

Winky winky 4k winky

Dark Soldier

There's this website called HURAWATCH lads it is not illegal swear down it is entirely legitimate and you are okay to use it Santa told me

LivDiv

Dark Soldier wrote:

Winky winky 4k winky

Sweet.

Armitage_Shankburn

Ds the MVP, week in week out. Dude just delivers. DS for PM, DS world king

Wookienopants

Let me know when it's up. I won't be able to see it anyway because I'll be at my in laws and they're stupid and don't like to watch anything other than A Place In The Sun or Antiques Roadshow repeats ...

Minkymu

The reviews are in.

Empire gives it a 3 star. Says starts fun then gets too serious

Questor

Sounds like the entire trilogy summed up

RedDave2

Guardian gave it 2 stars. Sad face.

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