Paul the sparky wrote:

Dark Soldier wrote:

In the space of ten days it appears I have become both a transphobe AND an ally of Ukranian genocide. Will have to update my CV

To be fair, a lot of us saw this coming

I'm just waiting for Trump to release a game so I can complete the trifecta

Dark Soldier wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

Dark Soldier wrote:

In the space of ten days it appears I have become both a transphobe AND an ally of Ukranian genocide. Will have to update my CV

To be fair, a lot of us saw this coming

I'm just waiting for Trump to release a game so I can complete the trifecta

Just play some Nintendo and support human rights abuses instead. Sorted.

Every thread is now PSVR2 or this shite is it?

But what about the Oculus?

Kow wrote:

But what about the Oculus?

The Micky Flanagan film?

afgavinstan wrote:

Can't wait for the Oculus Pancake to launch.

You only have an hour to eat it before it's discontinued.

Kow wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

I hate the term 'whataboutism'. Nothing occurs in a vacuum, similar situations, actions and reactions are relevant and a valid talking point

Just to repeat here. My point was not whataboutism, it was just to point out that using products or services is not in any way a show of support for any particular regime. Millions and millions of people went out on the streets and protested the Iraq war, then went home and ate their McDonalds or played their videogames. My point was not it was alright then so it's alright now.

I didn't think it was, which is why I hate the term being bandied around by people who don't understand it.

@Gurt I don't need to educate myself on it at all, you condescending twat. I know what it is and how it's used, and that's not what is happening here. That's why I hate the term, it's become a buzzword for idiots to stifle discussion as some form of automatic win button to hit when people attempt to add context to the situation.

You're right that this conversation isn't complicated, yet you've somehow managed to get it arse about face which has seen you accuse people of moral cowardice and equate Kow's comments here with Putin's propaganda. I mean fuck me gently

You've played a Mario game, right?

At least Mario shuts up most of the time. This guy just goes on and on and on.

@Paul  Not going to shit the thread up further but what I read in the last page does meet the definition and spirit of whataboutery, what exactly was the point of bringing up that people didn't boycott US games or whatever?

If the point was that people didn't take more action back then and that not doing something didn't make a difference, then that's obviously asinine and pointless. If it's charging hypocrisy then that's whataboutist bullshit. "it was just to point out that using products or services is not in any way a show of support for any particular regime" bringing up US wars A through D and that people didn't do shit back then does not make that point, and that argument is dubious regardless as boycotts/protests etc clearly have made a difference with various companies pulling out, sanctions etc. The only good reason to bring up past US wars in this context is to make the point that more could and should have been done to prevent it and how to use those lessons today and consider if doing something like not buying a video game might make a difference however tiny.

I don't actually think people buying this game makes much difference at all, probably. So I'm absolutely not judging anyone who just wants to play shootman game and not worry about the world, or thinks the links to potential harm are too tenous to worry about. Like I agree, it's just that if there's any doubt it's a piece of piss for me to just not bother all things considered. I'm actually a lot more fucked off with how so many conversations about doing something that might be positive for Ukraine end up derailed like this.

Again, I'll repeat. I could have picked any other conflict. My point is to say that we do not tend to associate buying products from a country with supporting that regime. We have never done it and we continue not to do it. It's not meant to be an excuse for anything.

Christ, I'm not saying one is ok and the other is not. I'm saying we tend to react in these ways usually.

Kow, I know you weren't saying one is okay and the other isn't. You were asking why there is a reaction to one but not the other.

I think that would be a valid criticism if the situation was similar, but I don't think they are, that's all I was trying to say, and then give my reasons why I'm personally avoiding it. I don't expect anyone else to, and don't think that anyone playing it is endorsing anything.

I think the best comparison for Iraq would be America's Army, which got a fairly deserved kicking for being a propaganda piece and recruitment tool for the US Army.

I'm not sure what the debate is even over at this point. If things are being inferred please just be blunt and spell them out because I think a lot of this discussion is happening at cross purposes.