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Moot_Geeza

I like memorisation in platformers but I struggle with forced scrolling shmups - my favourite flat plane scrolling shooters are usually the ones where you push the screen yourself, rather than relying on the heavily scripted 'do this here' approach (Bangai-O, the wrapped screens of Resogun/Aqua Kitty etc).

Final 2 seems to suffer from the devs messing around with 2.5D in places, it's not always easy to tell what's supposed to be in the background and what bit of spinning geometry might instantly pop your craft (until you learn from dying, of course). I'm probably just bitter because I ran out of credits on the final stage (on practice mode) and would need to spend an hour or so getting back there, which I'm not sure I've got the patience for as it's a very methodical shmup. The appeal of the genre for some for sure, I tend to like things littered with checkpoints these days though.

Moot_Geeza

stormyskiesahead wrote:

Hard agree with all the above. There are actually some great indie R-Type clones out that get far more love than Final 2. Or Final.

Side scrollers have been my jam of late, with the likes of Schildmaid MX and Drainus knocking it outta the park. Nothing matches Rolling Gunner + Overpower though, a somehow improved version of what was already... *ahem* one of the best shmups ever made.

Have you played Andro Dunos 2? Really fancy that one even though I'd probably be terrible at it.

stormyskiesahead

I haven't, it seems fairly well-liked but not really loved by the community. The dev's previous side-scrolling title, Infinos Gaiden, does have a better rep, but I don't know if it's on anything besides PC.

Satazius on PC or Satazius Next on Switch is also worth a look for a retro Gradius-inspired side-scrolling fix. Game's a good 'un.

davyK

I've always preferred vertical shooters but I do enjoy several horis apart from RType. The Gradius and Parodius games are favourites of mine , as is Darius Gaiden and Fantasy Zone. Sturmwind is a nice game even though it's very much a parade of set pieces, but I like its weapon/powerup scheme.

Facewon

Picked up legend of keepers from humble.

Traditional high fantasy pixel art, play the villain/boss of the dungeon Rogue like where you prep your dungeon then 3 adventurers come through.

Reminds me of domina Tbh. Not sure on the depth yet, but there's a lot to unlock.

Moot_Geeza

stormyskiesahead wrote:

I haven't, it seems fairly well-liked but not really loved by the community.

Yeah that's the kinda vibe I got while looking into it but I know I'll end up buying it at some point. Mainly because it looks lovely tbh.

stormyskiesahead

It is a very nice looking game. I'll probably grab it on sale myself.

davyK wrote:

I've always preferred vertical shooters but I do enjoy several horis apart from RType. The Gradius and Parodius games are favourites of mine , as is Darius Gaiden and Fantasy Zone. Sturmwind is a nice game even though it's very much a parade of set pieces, but I like its weapon/powerup scheme.

I felt the same way about vert/hori 'til recently (besides a few choice exceptions like Gradius and Progear), but there have been some stunning releases in the last few years.

And speaking of Progear, @Moot, you could do worse than downloading Capcom Arcade Stadium for free and then buying Cave's Progear for it for £1.69 or whatever it is. One of the greatest horis ever and insane value for money, I'd happily have spent £30 on this as a stand-alone release despite its short length. It is bullet hell so might not be exactly what you're looking for, but there are difficulty options, save states, and even a rewind feature for helping you learn and get to grips with things.

Shump Junkie's review of the collection is worth a watch. Progear is timestamped here.

afgavinstan

Mmmm I like me some Progear.

hylian_elf

WHAT?! I didn't know Progear was available. What do I buy, Arcade Stadium followed by some DLC pack?

afgavinstan

The first arcade stadium has been heavily discounted, I've seen before. Was definitely at least half price on Xbox a few weeks ago. The second one just came out this week.

stormyskiesahead

Aye, if you can get a pack on sale they can offer fantastic value. Haven't looked at the second title yet.

@Elf You download Arcade Stadium 1 or 2 for free, you then buy the packs or individual games. Arcade Stadium 1 - Pack 3 has Progear (and Giga Wing), but you can buy the individual games for under a couple of quid each. I just bought the half dozen or so games I wanted from the collection separately.

davyK

Aye. Progear is in the first pack. Pretty sure I've played it on MAME but not seriously. I think it's also in that all-in-1 capcom themed arcade stick package that was released a while back.

There's Akai Katana too which is totally bonkers but again, I haven't played a great deal of it. 360 got a PAL release of it.

stormyskiesahead

I forgot Progear was in that Home Arcade thing. This Arcade Stadium version is the first time it's had a proper console or PC release afaik, kinda crazy considering how good and how loved it is. Akai Katana is great as well, I barely touched it on 360 but have been playing on MAME. Will definitely be going back to the 360 version now I have a stick.

davyK

stormyskiesahead wrote:

I forgot Progear was in that Home Arcade thing. This Arcade Stadium version is the first time it's had a proper console or PC release afaik, kinda crazy considering how good and how loved it is. Akai Katana is great as well, I barely touched it on 360 but have been playing on MAME. Will definitely be going back to the 360 version now I have a stick.

The arcade mode is supposed to be inaccurate but what do I know? (or care for that matter as long as it isn't broken). The real value is supposedly in the new modes that were done for the port. It was great to have some official PAL versions of shmups on the 360 - especially the Cave games.

Moot_Geeza

I went back to R-Type Final 2 in the end. Not a great game, but not a bad one either. Definitely has its moments but still felt like a [6] overall.

Yossarian

Blue Swirl wrote:

It did annoy me that they made a second one, but it does look the business.

Just wait until you learn about a series called Final Fantasy.

JonB

Moot_Geeza wrote:

I went back to R-Type Final 2 in the end. Not a great game, but not a bad one either. Definitely has its moments but still felt like a [6] overall.

Yeah, I was very much on the same page when I played it last year. Although that was before various DLC packs, I believe, which add classic levels. I do love a bit of R-type, and always preferred horizontal shooters, but this just wasn't particularly impressive.

Moot_Geeza

Nice, spot on as far as I'm concerned, although you clearly played it for longer than I did (I'm done at the credits on the easiest setting and will ignore any post-game content). My full take here. It's a shame, because I really do fancy a good shmup at the moment and I can't find one that scratches the itch properly. They're either brilliant but too hard for me (gave Radiant Silvergun a good crack recently), or just a bit off.

JonB

The newer ones are often far too hard for me. They're aiming at a niche audience these days.

I can't remember if I finished Final 2 on a proper difficulty level or not. Maybe it was just easy and a few replays to check out the museum thing.

Moot_Geeza

I might just play Resogun again now that I'm subbed up. I played it on Vita initially, so I assume some of the wow factor was missing.

nick_md

Try Progear or Deathsmiles, which is easier.

nick_md

Happy to loan you a bunch of bullet hellers on disc for 360 if the appetite's there.

digi

Moot_Geeza wrote:

I might just play Resogun again now that I'm subbed up. I played it on Vita initially, so I assume some of the wow factor was missing.

Resogun is excellent,
Nex machina is great too.
But they all sit in the shadow of returnal.

afgavinstan

Recent DF vid waxed about Super Stardust HD oh man the memories. What a goddamn game.

Unlikely

Ooh, I had that on PC. Do I still have it on PC?

Blue Swirl

Yossarian wrote:

Blue Swirl wrote:

It did annoy me that they made a second one, but it does look the business.

Just wait until you learn about a series called Final Fantasy.

My litigation is pending in the courts.

AndCallMeCharlie

digi wrote:

Resogun is excellent, Nex machina is great too. But they all sit in the shadow of returnal.

For me Resogun is an 8; Nex Mahina a 9; Returnal 10

Moot_Geeza

Yeah that's probably where I stand on them too (Vita Reso was only 30fps though). Gave Returnal a 9 earlier in the year but could easily round it up. Super devs.

hylian_elf

All three are 9s for me. Probably Nex Machina at the top.

davyK

JonB wrote:

The newer ones are often far too hard for me. They're aiming at a niche audience these days. I can't remember if I finished Final 2 on a proper difficulty level or not. Maybe it was just easy and a few replays to check out the museum thing.

Most of the Cave ports on Steam have Novice modes now. They ease you in. Mushihimesama for vertical or Deathsmiles for hori are good starting points.

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