We Hate Adverts
  • You can paint wherever you want. But don't be surprised if someone sells it. I would in a heartbeat.
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    Ironic that one of the reasons Banksy's work is worth so much is down to the trend of patronising and paying enormous amounts for modern art by Saatchi. Who made his money making adverts for the Tories.
  • Yossarian
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    I'm not saying you should be surprised, I'm saying that I think you're a cunt if you do. Paint over it, fine, but selling it is a dick move IMO.
  • Why? It's my wall. Why is painting over it any better? It still removes the art.
  • Yoss, your notion that corporations are invading public space is a twisted way of presenting the reality, to suit your argument.  Like it or not, companies have the permissionof the owners of anything their adverts are on.  They don't invade your home, you invite them in by consuming things that carry advertising.  If Banksy and co want to legitimise their statements, they should seek permission.  If there is sufficient audience for those statements, they shouldn't have that much difficulty finding willing canvas owners.

    For the record, a corporation has never damaged my property for their gain.
  • Yossarian
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    Because it was never intended to benefit you personally, it was intended to benefit everyone. As the owner of the wall I see no reason why you shouldn't decide that it isn't beneficial and paint over it, but to recognise that value and take all the benefit for yourself makes you a cunt. Again, IMO.

    Edit: @Dante.
  • Yossarian
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    adkm1979 wrote:
    Yoss, your notion that corporations are invading public space is a twisted way of presenting the reality, to suit your argument.  Like it or not, companies have the permissionof the owners of anything their adverts are on.  They don't invade your home, you invite them in by consuming things that carry advertising.  If Banksy and co want to legitimise their statements, they should seek permission.  If there is sufficient audience for those statements, they shouldn't have that much difficulty finding willing canvas owners. For the record, a corporation has never damaged my property for their gain.

    The simple idea of 'owning' space would be a pretty twisted way of presenting reality to many cultures on earth, and I think our culture would be better if we recognised the ridiculousness of it ourselves.
  • Maybe it's different because I see no value in Banksy and all I'm concerned about is rinsing some moron for all I can in this hypothetical. Plus, painting over it would cost me money.
  • The rest of the natural world says many cultures should pull their heads out of their arses.
  • Yossarian
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    I don't know what you're getting at adkm.
  • Coke ad during the half time of the play offs. To the lass who has a coke to share with her imaginary boyfriend, I am Frederick III. Your boyfriend is no longer imaginary.
  • STV has frequent adverts encouraging us to visit Scotland.

    Encouraging you to visit parts other than the part you live in, surely? As in holiday in Scotland and contribute to a different facet of the community?
  • Nope it's aimed solely at people just over the border.
  • Yossarian wrote:
    I don't know what you're getting at adkm.
    Simple: the entire natural world recognises the notion of ownership of space or items.  We're the only ones to use the abstract concept of 'money' to handle the exchange of ownership.  Other life forms just use brute strength or some equivalent.  It's natural to own property.
  • Kow
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    That's not necessarily true at all. Anthropomorphising animals into being owners of things is misleading.
  • Yossarian
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    Indeed. Besides, animals that live in groups such as we do don't necessarily have one animal who gets to decide what the others are or aren't allowed to do in the territory which they all share and benefit from.
  • I love that, when people can't stand to accept the facts in front of them, they claim that we can't anthropomorphise animals.  No, I can't claim to know what's going on in every animal's head, but I can note that animals (and plants) behave in a certain manner, and that that behaviour is exhibited by humans who are, shock horror, animals.

    When they rip each other apart over food, or because one entered another's nest to take the food they'd stored, that's about as basic a notion of property ownership you'll find.  Stop thinking that being human makes you magical.
  • Yossarian
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    Incidentally, I'm not necessarily arguing against the very notion of ownership here, but rather the idea of owning land and public spaces. Protecting a food supply is one thing, claiming that you have eternal rights over a piece of the earth is another.
  • Kow
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    Who said anything like that? You can do it all you like. But it's misleading. Claiming legal ownership of property and the right to buy and sell that it entails hasn't that much of a connection to animals killing each other over food.
  • You maybe can't see the connection, Kow, but that's your failure, not mine.
  • Kow
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    Not really, the point being argued was the right to buy and sell a piece of property and by proxy the moral and legal right involved in this. There are differing views on this. It is not simply a case of saying animals kill each other therefore I can sell my wall.
  • You're right.  It's a slightly more complex way of saying that.
  • Any human behaviour is justified if you can find some equivalent in the animal kingdom?
  • Yossarian
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    Incidentally, adkm, if the fact that animals display traits that can be considered 'ownership' can be used as the ultimate justification of the idea of ownership in your mind because it's 'natural', how does street art differ to the natural process of one animal walking into the territory of another and marking it? Surely one has its roots in the natural world every bit as much as the other. How can you justify one by reference to the natural world and yet condemn the other?
  • Only animal cruely. And advertising.
  • Yossarian wrote:
    Surely one has its roots in the natural world every bit as much as the other. How can you justify one by reference to the natural world and yet condemn the other?
    Next time a lion pisses on another's tree to 'make a political statement', I'll get back to you.
  • Yossarian
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    In that case, the next time a lion sells on a piece of territory you can use your 'it's natural' argument to defend property ownership.

    Glad we've straightened that one out.
  • Yossarian
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    adkm1979 wrote:
    Yossarian wrote:
    Surely one has its roots in the natural world every bit as much as the other. How can you justify one by reference to the natural world and yet condemn the other?
    Next time a lion pisses on another's tree to 'make a political statement', I'll get back to you.

    Actually, come to think of it, is there much more of a political statement than announcing your intention of taking power, or, to put it another way, challenging the authority of whoever is currently in power? I'm pretty sure a lion has done that.

    I await your getting back to me on my earlier question.
  • Technically a treepissing is very much a political statement in Lionworld. Not an especially complicated statement but.
  • How does a lion advertise then?

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