nick_md wrote:

This VJ day stuff makes me uncomfortable, there's little to no discussion about how the allies nuked a civilian population to see what would happen and to flex. The argument 'it ended the war and more lives would've been lost if not' is complete horseshit that's been perpetuated by the victors.

Yep. Was reading an article about that last week. Even the military top brass conceded it wasn't necessary.  There was more politics in it - I'm sure the Yanks wanted to demonstrate what they had to Russia - though Stalin knew it about it anyhow - the Manhattan project was leaking like a sieve and they didn't know. Despite what the Americans may think today it was very much an international project - there was a significant British contingent too. 

What I didn't know was that the RAF were the reserve force to drop the bomb - called "Black Lancasters". The new USAF B29 Superfortress bombers didn't have a big enough bomb bay - it was split into two sections - and were having real problems getting it changed to be able to do the job.  The Lancasters didn't have the same range as the B29s but they figured out mid flight refuelling to be able to do the run. The Lancaster didn't have the same speed either so it would have been riskier making the escape after the drop but they could have done it. They were trained and ready.

So it could have been a very different thing looking back at those strikes today. We were all over it.

Basically if you want to test them, do it on your own soil.

Landmines, drones, gas, cluster bombs, biological agents.

Vela wrote:

In hindsight, whatever really happened to make the bombing go ahead, only one thing I think matters is that those kinds of weapons are utterly horrific and should never have been used. Ever. Britain happily nuked Australian Aboriginal lands too, so don't worry about the Lancaster pilots missing out on human rights abuse. Someone else did it .

There was also the firebombing of Dresden. Not quite the scale of the nuclear attacks, but still horrific.

Let's not forget Ronan Keating and Westlife. A tuk tuk driver in Burma once sang me a few Westlife songs. I was shocked but not as shocked he was when I said I hated them.

He called me a nation of begrudgers.

JonB wrote:

In hindsight, whatever really happened to make the bombing go ahead, only one thing I think matters is that those kinds of weapons are utterly horrific and should never have been used. Ever. Britain happily nuked Australian Aboriginal lands too, so don't worry about the Lancaster pilots missing out on human rights abuse. Someone else did it .

There was also the firebombing of Dresden. Not quite the scale of the nuclear attacks, but still horrific.

There was fire bombing of Japanese cities too - war crimes all. But there are no war criminals on the side that wins a war.

My uncle was stationed on Christmas Island during the British atomic tests when he was in the RAF. They were test subjects too - no doubt about it.

I'm sure the Russians see themselves as the good guys. I mean, who doesn't see themselves as the good guys?

I mean, you ask any patriotic Spaniard and they'll tell you the rape, pillage and murder of South America never happened - they were there to help, educate and civilise. The good guys. Same for British Empire. I don't think the US is much different, it just has different methods.

b0r1s wrote:

I guess. But we don’t have it perpetuated across the world as we do with the US.

Cold War?

I find all of these commentators, marina hyde and John Crace utterly depressing.

They make jokes but to no real end.

I’m not really sure but I think they remind me of a time when satire and embarrassment of incompetence was actually meaningfully impactful (resignations and so on).

Now it’s just clowns mocking from the sidelines (maybe all there is is smugness now). But in the mean time the tragedies keeps piling up with no real consequence.

I'm not far off Crayon. The ability to fart out a blog piece as opposed to a nuanced bit of satire has lessened the impact of something like a Greenaway or a Coe. There were politicians changing their mannerisms, tenor and delivery following Spitting Image. This time round it'll be Carry On Fucking Sucking.

The ability to fart out a blog post is insignificant next to the power of the Farce



See its fuckin easy.

It all feels like it's just part of the game. It's coming from within the establishment, poking fun at itself, rather than from outside with any venom or purpose.