The Last Guardian and all things Ueda pasty present and future - The Bear and Badger

stonechalice

JonB wrote:

Never mind, turns out it was me being a moron.

There are actually

Spoiler:

2 carts together, and only 1 is stuck under the door. You can pull the other one from inside and use it as a platform to reach the lever.
Spent about half an hour trying other things in the main room before noticing that. Oops.

Yeah that bit got me. That chain does fuck all until later. Spent fucking ages pissing about.

JonB

Finished it off this morning. It's an amazing game.

Spoiler:

Can't quite believe what they pulled off with the beast - I've never seen a character that well defined in a video game, and it's amazing that something that large, onscreen for almost all of a 12 hour game didn't break or glitch even once. The animation, AI and physics are stunning. Can see why it took so long and needed the upgrade to PS4. The environments also deserve special mention - not only do they look great, the interaction between the crumbling ruins and the beast has an incredible level of detail.
I did have some issues with controls and camera, and some of the puzzle designs are a bit off (also, a couple of narration prompts appeared before I'd done the thing it mentioned, or sometimes you run around looking for a solution only to find you were just supposed to move somewhere and trigger an event). Mostly with the controls and camera I got used to them after a couple of hours, but the issues returned towards the end of the game when you have to perform more intricate actions or act quickly. The set pieces with the beasts fighting each other didn't quite work for me, as Trico was being throttled for over 5 minutes while I bumbled around falling off platforms.
But there are so many highlights and they are so high that I have no problem forgiving all of that. Even the 'old-fashioned' feel of it isn't all bad - it's a while since a game like this has been happy to leave you alone to figure stuff out, and the result is some of the best Zelda and Tomb Raider moments since the PS1/N64 days, when those franchises have long forgotten their real strengths. There's also the far more cutting edge physics puzzles, of course, and the integration of that big feathered set of gaming tools into each scenario, which are in advance of anything I've seen elsewhere.
As for the ending, I'm glad they avoided the obvious route of killing off the beast. I expected it almost all the way through and it would've seemed like cynical emotional manipulation. As it stands, it's a wonderfully simple, elegantly told and beautiful story.

TL;DR: GOTY.

JonB

Also, I haven't read about 50 pages of this thread since ducking out just after it launched. Will spend some time going back through and reading other badgers' thoughts.

JRPC

Everyone thought it was amazing.

That's basically the gist.

Paul the sparky

Nah.

JonB

JRPC wrote:

Everyone thought it was amazing. That's basically the gist.

Ha. I've seen the over spill into other threads, so I know it's divisive. Just want to read in more detail.

hylian_elf

Happy to update your GotY list.

FranticPea

It's the best and worst goty, depending on ~~how much of an idiot you are~~ how catmoran behaved for you.

[Deleted User]

JonB wrote:

Finished it off this morning. It's an amazing game.

Spoiler:

Can't quite believe what they pulled off with the beast - I've never seen a character that well defined in a video game, and it's amazing that something that large, onscreen for almost all of a 12 hour game didn't break or glitch even once. The animation, AI and physics are stunning. Can see why it took so long and needed the upgrade to PS4. The environments also deserve special mention - not only do they look great, the interaction between the crumbling ruins and the beast has an incredible level of detail.
I did have some issues with controls and camera, and some of the puzzle designs are a bit off (also, a couple of narration prompts appeared before I'd done the thing it mentioned, or sometimes you run around looking for a solution only to find you were just supposed to move somewhere and trigger an event). Mostly with the controls and camera I got used to them after a couple of hours, but the issues returned towards the end of the game when you have to perform more intricate actions or act quickly. The set pieces with the beasts fighting each other didn't quite work for me, as Trico was being throttled for over 5 minutes while I bumbled around falling off platforms.
But there are so many highlights and they are so high that I have no problem forgiving all of that. Even the 'old-fashioned' feel of it isn't all bad - it's a while since a game like this has been happy to leave you alone to figure stuff out, and the result is some of the best Zelda and Tomb Raider moments since the PS1/N64 days, when those franchises have long forgotten their real strengths. There's also the far more cutting edge physics puzzles, of course, and the integration of that big feathered set of gaming tools into each scenario, which are in advance of anything I've seen elsewhere.
As for the ending, I'm glad they avoided the obvious route of killing off the beast. I expected it almost all the way through and it would've seemed like cynical emotional manipulation. As it stands, it's a wonderfully simple, elegantly told and beautiful story.
TL;DR: GOTY.

Agree with pretty much all of that.

JRPC

Me too, but I like Nick's review best.

His point about the clumsy controls feeding into it was bang on.

JonB

FranticPea wrote:

It's the best and worst goty, depending on ~~how much of an idiot you are~~ how catmoran behaved for you.

Did it actually break for anyone? As far as the communication difficulties between boy and beast go, I took that at part of the deal from the beginning and was happy to run with it, even when it involved waiting around or repeating commands. Otherwise we might as well be playing A Boy and His Blob.

JRPC

Exactly.

FranticPea

Yes I broke for me a few times, one time requiring a complete restart and losing several hours. It's not like it's the first game to do this, but the game wasn't amazing enough to help me see past it.

JRPC

Broke how?

Kow

Communication is fine, seems reasonable. Apart from the obvious problems of wonky camera and shoddy controls, the problem is the game is dull. If you don't one hundred percent buy into the relationship between cat thing and the boy then you're not left with much.

[Deleted User]

Which is why I struggle to see where Jon gets most of his comments from. This game dreams of being half as good as Tomb Raider. While the animation of the beast is amongst the best you'll see, there's nothing remotely cutting edge about the gameplay. Quite the opposite.

Verecocha

My worst game of 2016. But that's just my opinion. Didn't get the connection, thought the gameplay was stuck at the beginning of last gen, and it was very dull.

stonechalice

It's the most un-repayable game in history. I'd never want to go through it again.

I've said it before but I'll say it again - it's the most amazing shit game I've ever played.

FranticPea

JRPC wrote:

Broke how?

Chain became attached to cats head permanently, cage sinking into the floor and getting stuck.

JonB

I feel like playing it all over again.

hylian_elf

I stated it again straight away. Gonna go back and play with Torico more.

Birdorf

I should probably have another go. Catbird's head going through the scenery a few times during the opening 30 minutes really put me off. I didn't even get a chance to hate the controls or camera.

Dubs

I did it again after about a month's break and loved it again. I even had actual human feelings at almost all of the key moments. Then I did a bit of a 3rd playthrough because I noticed that I only needed a few more barrels to unlock the paintfeather which is fun.

I had a similar experience to you, Jon, in that some of the peril was revealed as the false kind during a few set-pieces. Those were, however, brief moments in a dozen hours of being completely swept up in it so easily forgiven.

The only thing that snagged on both playthroughs was

Spoiler:

Raiziel

I played through it a second time shortly after the first and there was one part that actually hit me more intensely than on the first play through.

Spoiler:

JonB

Dubs wrote:

The only thing that snagged on both playthroughs was

Spoiler:

where you fall through the floor into a flooded room with a large crate which you can push into the water. Both times it took ages for Trico to bash through the floor and dangle his tail down and I didn't have a clue if I was supposed to position myself in a certain way, instruct Trico or simply wait for him. The real problem is that you can't see Trico and thus interpret his current intentions.

Yes.

Spoiler:

hylian_elf

It's the only bit I disliked in the game and where it had me cursing the game and not myself.

JonB

A couple of hours in to a second run. It's great that I can focus more on the details of the creature now, since I'm not having to work out what to do so much. Also, it's interesting to be reminded how much the relationship develops throughout the game by going back and seeing what wasn't possible at the start. Mostly it's that the beast will only follow you, and won't jump anywhere before you go there yourself.

And now I've got to the bit where you can issue commands, it seems to work much more reliably, I guess because I know what I'm doing more this time. It just all seems quite clear, and Trico has so far responded quickly to everything.

JonB

Caught up with the thread. It's funny reading it back, as come of the criticisms people have are some of my favourite things about it. Not stuff like camera and controls (the boy needed a movement speed between full on running and the not particularly useful tip-toeing - could've had a normal walk and used L2 as a run button in fact), but stuff like barrels bouncing off Trico's nose when you throw them (pretty sure that means you were standing too close for it to react BTW) or it struggling to pick them off the floor with its big clumsy beak, so you need to go and help it out.

As for the game's title

Spoiler:

Paul the sparky

JonB wrote:

Caught up with the thread. It's funny reading it back, as come of the criticisms people have are some of my favourite things about it. Not stuff like camera and controls (the boy needed a movement speed between full on running and the not particularly useful tip-toeing - could've had a normal walk and used L2 as a run button in fact), but stuff like barrels bouncing off Trico's nose when you throw them (pretty sure that means you were standing too close for it to react BTW) or it struggling to pick them off the floor with its big clumsy beak, so you need to go and help it out.

As for the game's title

Spoiler:

It seems to me, given that it's all about the relationship, that the boy and the beast are each other's last guardian. It's always there when you most need it, and you're always there when it most needs you.

Not another YOU'RE PLAYING IT WRONG defence is it? Again, we've covered this. Having to stand in exactly the right spot is a result of poor AI and collision detection. Dress it up as Trico not paying attention, standing too close or whatever you want but if you throw him a barrel he's pining for (eyes lit up) and it bounces off his mouth it's because the game is fucking up. Nothing more.

It's also amusing that the beast can deftly pluck you out of the air by the collar as you're falling past him at great speed (sometimes, as on occasions the same AI and collision detection snafu means he misses and you fall to your death. Or he's just being grumpy if that's how you choose to perceive it.) yet a barrel on the floor is completely beyond the capabilities of its mouth.

It's great that so many have enjoyed it, but it's a shame that it requires you to make so many excuses and turn a blind eye so often, and hope you don't encounter a glitch which requires a restart.

Vela

The framerate isn't poor, its just the boy blinking lots because he's allergic to feathers.

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