Sorry, it was a fast edit - thought I'd get it in before anyone had read the post.

It just seems to me that people wanted or expected different experiences in the end. As I said, some of the fixes people have suggested sound less appealing to me (which isn't to say there are no actual faults), so what I want isn't what you want and vice versa, but what we got was closer to what I want. Looking at it that way, however, I don't think it can all be put down to poor coding and making excuses (as has sometimes been implied).

The cunts.

JonB wrote:

Sorry, it was a fast edit - thought I'd get it in before anyone had read the post. It just seems to me that people wanted or expected different experiences in the end. As I said, some of the fixes people have suggested sound less appealing to me (which isn't to say there are no actual faults), so what I want isn't what you want and vice versa, but what we got was closer to what I want. Looking at it that way, however, I don't think it can all be put down to poor coding and making excuses (as has sometimes been implied).

The thing is, what I wanted, what I hoped for, is the experience others have had. clearly, though, I'm going to have to repeat myself; there is a difference, in my mind a very clear difference, between deliberate 'failures' which are programmed in, to give us the experience of a boy and a creature learning how to interact with each other, and actual failures where the code clearly doesn't work as intended. I understand the difficulty you're having accepting this, because you're barking up the wrong tree.

Let me equate it to driving a car with an intermittent fault. You take it to the garage, they drive the car and don't experience the fault. That doesn't mean that your car isn't broken, and it doesn't mean that you're driving it wrong, but fuck me, it makes it annoying to drive the car, never knowing when the fault is going to come back.

TLG is a car with multiple intermittent faults. It's all the more frustrating, because it's a Mercedes with all the optional extras, but they've only given you an oval track with speed bumps to drive it on.

No. You still don't get it. There's a difference between the deliberate 'failures' which are part of the charm, and code that doesn't work. The game has both. I get that the former has appeal, but the latter is fucking annoying. I'm wondering why you're finding this so hard to grasp, and you can fuck off with your continued 'doing it wrong' shite.

No, because we're talking about different things. Unless you mean that various things in the game (barrels, Tricos, boys, walls, floors, chains) are meant to glitch inside each other, or fail to register contact with each other.

I know and understand all the bits of the game where Trico is meant to be a bit frustrating. I can see the bits that are designed. It would just be nice if some of you recognised that some of us also experienced various things that were actually broken. Your utter refusal to accept that, just because you didn't see it, is tantamount to calling us fucking idiots. It's fucking bullshit, and it's fucking tiresome.

I like to imagine a car that feels cool to drive and looks amazing zipping along a road but when you look under the bonnet of my imaginary car it's boring.

What the fuck lol, this page, this discussion. Just lol.

JonB wrote:

Some of the things that seem to you to be clearly unarguably faults, do not seem to be clearly unarguably faults to me (and others). In fact, they seem to be quite intentional details that enhance the game.

I've explained why I think that more than I ever wanted to. You being certain about your position doesn't convince me otherwise.

And that's the crux of it. Obviously I don't see it like that, and it seems to me you could find a reason for all sorts of janky things that happen and explain them away with a wave of your hand if you want to.

The narrator spews out a piece of information at the wrong time because he's an old guy now, and he might not be remembering them in the correct order. The boy goes from agonisingly slow tiptoe to full speed arm waving run because he's obviously constantly scared, yes, even when he breaks into the running on the spot thing without an enemy in sight it's completely intentional. Trico misses the boy as he's falling resulting in a fail state and restart which the player has no control over because he's a real life animal FFS he might not have been paying attention, has slow reactions, whatever, it's put in there as a humorous alternative ending to the set piece, now you get to play it again with the true ending, you lucky devil. He can't catch a barrel thrown right at him as it's a deliberate decision to reinforce the idea that the relationship between the boy and Trico is a charmingly clumsy one, even though it comes with the cost of making Trico look suspiciously like a poorly programmed AI without the necessary pathfinding and animation to just pick the barrel up from the floor.

Even if you decide everything in the game is a deliberate decision made by the developers, they're not all good ones are they?

There's just so much crap in here that you really have to get on board with to fully enjoy it, and that's without getting into the camera, issuing commands (this is one I've actually had least bother with, bizarrely. But others have and I'd not be able to say with confidence, given what I know of the rest of the game, that it's 100% down to the player.) and outright glitches.

Rather than saying that JRPC doesn't get your analogy Andy, perhaps you just don't get The Last Guardian. I don't get Dark Souls.

Paul the sparky wrote:

JonB wrote:

Some of the things that seem to you to be clearly unarguably faults, do not seem to be clearly unarguably faults to me (and others). In fact, they seem to be quite intentional details that enhance the game. I've explained why I think that more than I ever wanted to. You being certain about your position doesn't convince me otherwise.

And that's the crux of it. Obviously I don't see it like that, and it seems to me you could find a reason for all sorts of janky things that happen and explain them away with a wave of your hand if you want to. The narrator spews out a piece of information at the wrong time because he's an old guy now, and he might not be remembering them in the correct order. The boy goes from agonisingly slow tiptoe to full speed arm waving run because he's obviously constantly scared, yes, even when he breaks into the running on the spot thing without an enemy in sight it's completely intentional. Trico misses the boy as he's falling resulting in a fail state and restart which the player has no control over because he's a real life animal FFS he might not have been paying attention, has slow reactions, whatever, it's put in there as a humorous alternative ending to the set piece, now you get to play it again with the true ending, you lucky devil. He can't catch a barrel thrown right at him as it's a deliberate decision to reinforce the idea that the relationship between the boy and Trico is a charmingly clumsy one, even though it comes with the cost of making Trico look suspiciously like a poorly programmed AI without the necessary pathfinding and animation to just pick the barrel up from the floor. Even if you decide everything in the game is a deliberate decision made by the developers, they're not all good ones are they? There's just so much crap in here that you really have to get on board with to fully enjoy it, and that's without getting into the camera, issuing commands (this is one I've actually had least bother with, bizarrely. But others have and I'd not be able to say with confidence, given what I know of the rest of the game, that it's 100% down to the player.) and outright glitches.

A couple of things you mention there are things I've also mentioned as issues. I said there should be a movement speed between creeping and running and that the narration came in too early a couple of times. (As for the slow motion falling bits, you do have some control, but whatever.)

I've not accused anyone of playing it wrong. I've not dismissed anything that other people may have experience that I didn't. I've not made excuses for every issue people (including me) have had with the game. So, yeah, I dunno. I'll leave it there.

I'm fine with the discussion, and certainly don't want to piss anyone off. Just got caught up talking about the finer points of eating barrels for too long, I guess.

I'm probably trying to put off getting back to work.

Some people were throwing them wrong.

I blame @CoopersGreen he should have made them tastier

I would say floppy limb is one of the best things about this and Ico. Was essential to the hand holding in ico.

Edit: I should stop killing off conversation in this thread with my nonsense.